RAVENS SIGN STALLWORTH

[thundercleetz]

Haha! You're right. How naive am i?!

 

Enjoy your million dollar murderer.

 

I am scared to ask what you think about Ray Lewis.

[deeshopper]

Haha! You're right. How naive am i?!

 

What RavensNest8483 wrote. That's how. Or would you prefer ignorant of circumstances?

 

Enjoy your million dollar murderer.

 

A new level of maturity for you. It is an honor to be in the presence of perfection.

[ForceEight]

A driver not under the influence is exponentially more capable of handling those circumstances. I'm not ignorant of them, I'm simply aware that they weren't the primary reasons for it.

 

And I'm glad that my presence is an honor for you (as well it should be). However, my perfection is not the starting point. I'd say that anyone who doesn't get into a vehicle after drinking a large amount, and killing someone due to that illegal circumstance, is on the right track...but, you seem alright with that.

[GrubberRaven]

A driver not under the influence is exponentially more capable of handling those circumstances. I'm not ignorant of them, I'm simply aware that they weren't the primary reasons for it.

 

And I'm glad that my presence is an honor for you (as well it should be). However, my perfection is not the starting point. I'd say that anyone who doesn't get into a vehicle after drinking a large amount, and killing someone due to that illegal circumstance, is on the right track...but, you seem alright with that.

 

All kneel before Prick Master!

[deeshopper]

I'm just going to ignore you from now on because obviously that stick up your butt has protruded your brain. Your track record of arrogance and ignorance is astounding, and I feel sorry for you.

[ravinmaniac52]

What if it was someone you know, your father or brother?

your child.

[cravnravn]

Cant play what ifs...Its done, its over with, hes paid his debt to society and the family.

[deeshopper]

What if it was someone you know, your father or brother?

your child.

 

I would ask God to help me forgive that person. There are certain things that I believe, that for me, does not matter if I am the victim of it or not. Some of those things include forgiveness and allowing a person who has made a mistake to have a second chance. That's just my belief. Read my first few posts in this thread. I'm consistent in that. Now, if you want to talk about second and third chances, we can. Do I expect everyone to agree with my opinion? No. Do I have the right to my opinion? Yes. Is anyone who disagrees with me worthless? No. Does my point of view make me better than someone else? No. Do I respect someone else's right to their opinion? Of course. But what I won't accept is this all or nothing attitude of intolerance for another person's point of view. To do that is total arrogance and wholly shortsighted.

 

I think it is easier to hate a person and hope that someone fails and lives a miserable life and should be continually punished because of one act. It is much harder to accept a person's faults, shortcomings, mistakes and misdeeds and forgive them for it. And yet, people do that. If someone were to hold any one of your mistakes against you for the rest of your life, how can you be expected to learn from incident, make yourself a better person and educate other people about what you did? Should no one have that opportunity?

 

I stole a tube of lip gloss. That makes me a bona fide thief, apparently. I can never learn from my actions. I've had friends killed in similar accidents, through their own fault or no fault of their own. Should I carry around the anger, hurt and hate of the incident all of my life? Sorry, I simply can't do that. What I can do is hope and pray that all those involved find the spiritual healing that they need to make it through the situation, learn from it and become better people. I can't and won't throw the baby out with the bathwater and I won't throw out the bushel because one apple is spoiled.

 

Those beliefs don't make me any better or any worse than anyone else. Although some people here would have you believe otherwise.

[geo]

Wow! The discussion is indeed endless but telling- its almost suited for Oprah. I wonder whether this guy will actually make the regular season roster ?

 

Agreed.

[SpearSrai]

A driver not under the influence is exponentially more capable of handling those circumstances. I'm not ignorant of them, I'm simply aware that they weren't the primary reasons for it.

 

Do you know this from first-hand experience, or are you relying on the information of others to make this claim? Exactly how impaired is someone with a .1 BAL? Since you've claimed to not drink, I have to question the credibility and insightfulness of your opinion.

[Guest BallTMore]

If I may chime in again. I don't think this is a holier than thou situation (Though it sarcastically turned into one).

 

I don't want to speak for anyone else, so if I'm off base just ignore it. And please don't read this as being hostile, I'm just calmly giving my views on Stallworth's incident and drinking in general.

 

I also do not drink. Never have, so I know I'm in the minority. I don't really care who does or doesn't. If you like to drink, go for it.

 

What does bother me, is the excuses when it comes to alcohol. It just rubs me the wrong way for some reason. Has for a long time. When you choose to drink, you are responsible for what happens after. There's no "I didn't mean it, I was drunk", or "I did so-and-so, but it's okay because it really wasn't me, it was the alcohol." That's pushing the blame and not taking responsibility for your own actions. It's an easy way out, and we sorta saw those excuses in this thread.

 

I think that's what hit a nerve with f8, as it did with me (Though maybe not as much lol).

 

I'm pretty shallow when it comes to football. I'll root for anyone if they produce, even the girlfriend beater if we were to trade for him, so if Stallworth can help the team, great. But I don't think he will, which is mostly why I'm against this signing.

[SpearSrai]

I also do not drink. Never have, so I know I'm in the minority. I don't really care who does or doesn't. If you like to drink, go for it.

 

What does bother me, is the excuses when it comes to alcohol. It just rubs me the wrong way for some reason. Has for a long time. When you choose to drink, you are responsible for what happens after. There's no "I didn't mean it, I was drunk", or "I did so-and-so, but it's okay because it really wasn't me, it was the alcohol." That's pushing the blame and not taking responsibility for your own actions. It's an easy way out, and we sorta saw those excuses in this thread.

 

This isn't the debate at all. Everybody feels that way about drinking excuses. And I don't mean everyone here; I mean everyone in the world. Excuses because of drinking are never valid (except for in some courts, where contracts are void if one or both parties are intoxicated.)

 

The debate mostly stems from the ignorance of non-drinkers in the commonness of impaired-driving (be it alcohol, fatigue, distraction, poor driving ability, or something else) and the hostility that arises because of it. I'm in no way saying any of it is acceptable. All I'm saying is that you shouldn't make the guy into a scapegoat for making a decision that many of your friends and relatives make on a daily basis. Either demonize everyone, or no one.

[deeshopper]

If I may chime in again. I don't think this is a holier than thou situation (Though it sarcastically turned into one).

 

I don't want to speak for anyone else, so if I'm off base just ignore it. And please don't read this as being hostile, I'm just calmly giving my views on Stallworth's incident and drinking in general.

 

I also do not drink. Never have, so I know I'm in the minority. I don't really care who does or doesn't. If you like to drink, go for it.

 

What does bother me, is the excuses when it comes to alcohol. It just rubs me the wrong way for some reason. Has for a long time. When you choose to drink, you are responsible for what happens after. There's no "I didn't mean it, I was drunk", or "I did so-and-so, but it's okay because it really wasn't me, it was the alcohol." That's pushing the blame and not taking responsibility for your own actions. It's an easy way out, and we sorta saw those excuses in this thread.

 

I think that's what hit a nerve with f8, as it did with me (Though maybe not as much lol).

 

I'm pretty shallow when it comes to football. I'll root for anyone if they produce, even the girlfriend beater if we were to trade for him, so if Stallworth can help the team, great. But I don't think he will, which is mostly why I'm against this signing.

 

 

This isn't the debate at all. Everybody feels that way about drinking excuses. And I don't mean everyone here; I mean everyone in the world. Excuses because of drinking are never valid (except for in some courts, where contracts are void if one or both parties are intoxicated.)

 

The debate mostly stems from the ignorance of non-drinkers in the commonness of impaired-driving (be it alcohol, fatigue, distraction, poor driving ability, or something else) and the hostility that arises because of it. I'm in no way saying any of it is acceptable. All I'm saying is that you shouldn't make the guy into a scapegoat for making a decision that many of your friends and relatives make on a daily basis. Either demonize everyone, or no one.

 

 

BallT, I think you have one person saying that and I think I quoted him below. I disagree with him. The rest of the people are saying that people should get a second chance. It has nothing to do with drinkers versus non-drinkers. The attitude of "I'm better than you because I never drink so I'm free to judge people that do" is arrogant and ignorant. The attitude of "this person deserves to suffer forever and then burn in Hell for it" is holier-than-thou.

 

If someone wants to be mad because they feel the time served was too light. Fine. If they want to say that the punishment did not fit the crime, fine. But to sit in your room and pass out judgment against anyone else who's ever made a mistake makes me sick.

[cravnravn]

Dont cast judgement til you been in the mans shoes...Did I kill somebody? No, but I got popped in 1996, and I hit somebody..Its not a fun feeling, we need to cut Stallworth some slack, I was given a 2nd chance, he deserves one too. The guy is going thru emotional times right now..

[SpearSrai]

BallT, I think you have one person saying that and I think I quoted him below. I disagree with him.

 

What exactly are you saying that I'm saying? And what exactly is it that you disagree with? Specifics would be helpful.

[deeshopper]

I'm shocked that you've never been behind a wheel at a time where you would've failed a sobriety test. This is an extremely common occurrence, and by that I mean many people have been in that situation at least once. Overreacting to this is like how grandparents talk about marijuana as if it's uncommon and the most evil thing in the world, when we actually realize how common it is. The people I've been exposed to who would drive a little too soon after driving a drink are not habitually bad or troublesome... they're just regular people.

 

Like someone said earlier, Stallworth got extremely unlucky at the result. I would take that anyday over pushing a meter maid out of the way with my car or shooting myself in the leg in public. THOSE are character concerns. I bet over 50% of NFL players have driven or rode with someone "under the influence" at some point in their lives. We can't demonize everyone.

 

 

That's why you can't identify with this. If you were a drinker at all, you would totally get what we're talking about here. It's not that people make a habit out of driving drunk...it's that borderline scenarios come up at points in your life.

 

For example, a person goes out, takes a cab to and from the bar, has a few too many, then has to get up for work early in the morning. They mostly just feel tired, but their blood alcohol level is still higher than it should be. If a homeless person runs out in front of their car, they instantly become a cold-blooded-killer. If not, they're just a normal person who is out doing their job.

 

I know this isn't exactly what happened with Stallworth, but things like this don't make-or-break a person's character. If you're just saying everyone who has ever driven under the influence is a killer (or potential killer), then there's really no point to be made here, and no reason to single out Stallworth, since I still contend that most NFL players will have been in this type of borderline situation sometime between high school, college, and the pros.

 

I guess it would be parts of these two statements, which you later explain, which is fine. What DC wrote earlier regarding the first of those, if I remember correctly, is problem the same comment/question that I would have made. It's why I said it isn't a drinker vs. non-drinker issue for me. But, like I said, you've explained your point of view in further detail after that. It was the comment along the lines I can judge because I haven't done it is what got me.

[SpearSrai]

I guess it would be parts of these two statements, which you later explain, which is fine. What DC wrote earlier regarding the first of those, if I remember correctly, is problem the same comment/question that I would have made. It's why I said it isn't a drinker vs. non-drinker issue for me. But, like I said, you've explained your point of view in further detail after that. It was the comment along the lines I can judge because I haven't done it is what got me.

 

Oh, okay. I get that. I just think it's too easy to hurt epithets like "bona fide killer" around when discussing complete strangers doing things you haven't personally experienced. And I'm not talking about you here. "People" would probably be more sensitive to these issues if it were, say, a close friend who found himself in the same situation. And that goes for both sides of the debate.

[dc.]

Im sorry, not taking up for Stallworth, but .13 is hardly intoxicated..

 

Legally... it's well beyond intoxicated. And really, it's intoxicated enough to impair your ability to drive pretty significantly.

 

 

For example, a person goes out, takes a cab to and from the bar, has a few too many, then has to get up for work early in the morning. They mostly just feel tired, but their blood alcohol level is still higher than it should be. If a homeless person runs out in front of their car, they instantly become a cold-blooded-killer. If not, they're just a normal person who is out doing their job.

 

I still think this is beyond lame on my excuse-o-meter. I don't know how frequently this happens. If it happens at all, it's time to reconsider your drinking habits. If you have to go to work in the morning, then there should be no possibility of waking up drunk. Hungover? That's one thing. Drunk? That's another. I have been in the 'borderline' spot of having a third beer and then wondering if I can drive... and every time I've wondered, I've made the right choice (giving my keys to someone else or just walking home). But it's not about me versus anyone else. It's simply about making the right decision. We all make little mistakes. Drunk driving is a BIG mistake. We need to stop saying it's not.

 

Regardless... I'm not calling him a cold blooded killer or a bonafide killer or whatever. I entered the convo a little late and was just disgusted to see people defending (in any way) the actions of someone who drove drunk. There's no defense for it. And I can just repeat again... drunk driving is a big mistake. We need to stop pretending it's not or it shouldn't be.

 

 

 

Meanwhile... I still don't like the signing because I think the odds of a guy in Stallworth's position (pushing 30, coming out of a semi-force retirement and a few year's from being a factor on any team) actually making an impact on our team are little to nothing.

 

This reminds me of an Orioles type move as I said before... oh, Garret Atkins (Aubrey Huff, Luke Scott, Ty Wigginton, Adam Eaton, etc etc), he's cheap and has so much upside... mmmmmm... let's all get hot and bothered about just how much upside there is and have it shoved down our throats for months until we realize that upside isn't happening.

[Spen]

Drunk driving is a huge mistake and no one should do it or excuse it. Period.

 

There are ton of other things that are huge mistakes to do while in your car. If Stallworth had been texting while driving, sleepy, messing his his radio, and many other things I wonder if there would be this much anger at him, or if his penalty would be different. I know numerous people who dont drink and constantly bitch about drinking and driving who treat the roadways like either a race course or their own private offices, with chatting driving with one handthe whole time or even texting. Those are huge mistakes and problems too.

 

But to me its not about drinking vs other offenses either, I just think he deserves a 2nd chance as most everyone does. Despite some claims, I dont know anyone that is perfect.

[cravnravn]

Legally... it's well beyond intoxicated. And really, it's intoxicated enough to impair your ability to drive pretty significantly.

 

Maybe to you early 20 year olds, but its equalvient to 4 beers..Hardly enough to impair your ability to drive.

[OutsideRzAcE]

Meanwhile... I still don't like the signing because I think the odds of a guy in Stallworth's position (pushing 30, coming out of a semi-force retirement and a few year's from being a factor on any team) actually making an impact on our team are little to nothing.

 

The Ravens' don't have many options with this final 8 rule handcuffing them. When you consider that, I think it's a good move. The only way Stallworth can be more ineffective than Clayton, last year's #2, is to miss 12 games (Seriously, look at Clayton's numbers last year - they're beyond pathetic.) In this way, it'll be an upgrade and a good move IF either Mason comes back or we sign a better quality receiver than Stallworth to be our #1. Now if we go into the season with Stallworth and Clatyon as our 1 and 2, then it'll be a disaster.

[dc.]

Maybe to you early 20 year olds, but its equalvient to 4 beers..Hardly enough to impair your ability to drive.

 

Fine, Crav. You're a better drinker than all of us. Good for you.

 

Wait, no, that's just a myth/common misconception. Regardless of how drunk 4 beers makes you 'feel'... it's more than enough to mess with your driving ability. I mean, this is all just nonsense... I can't even stand it. There are some people out there who believe they 'drive better with 1 or 2 beers in 'em.' It's absurd and ridiculous.

 

You drink, even 2 beers, and it will affect your consciousness to some extent. Anything more than that will impair your ability to perform fine motor skills. Period. Even in the slightest. That's all it takes.

 

 

But to me its not about drinking vs other offenses either, I just think he deserves a 2nd chance as most everyone does. Despite some claims, I dont know anyone that is perfect.

 

I agree with that, too, Spen. I just don't think he's a fit for the Ravens.

[Spen]

All of which become nearly non-factors when the driver is not intoxicated.

 

Im sorry, not taking up for Stallworth, but .13 is hardly intoxicated..

 

.13 is a pretty high BAC, I'd say someone is definitely drunk at that amount.(i'll let you know later) According to the drinking charts thats about 8 beers in 2 hours. Or about 40 Coors Lights in 2 hours.

 

http://www.ou.edu/oupd/bac.htm

 

I agree with that, too, Spen. I just don't think he's a fit for the Ravens.

 

If I had any confidence in our receivers beside Mason I might either, I just think the bar has been set really low by who we have.

[BengalBilly]

I am scared to ask what you think about Ray Lewis.

Whoa...even I wasn't going to bring that up!

[cravnravn]

13 is a pretty high BAC, I'd say someone is definitely drunk at that amount.(i'll let you know later) According to the drinking charts thats about 8 beers in 2 hours. Or about 40 Coors Lights in 2 hours.

 

http://www.ou.edu/oupd/bac.htm

 

All depends on weight, using your chart or is that MADD's Charts (bunch of bitches) For me, according to your chart, I could pound down 8 beers (light) in 2 hrs and be at .11..8 in 2hrs is a lot of peeing.

 

I put in Stallworths weight at 180 and according to the chart he would of consumed 8 Margaritas to blow a .13..