A look at Ravens' options at wide receiver

[thundercleetz]

We need McGahee back, he is a huge part of this team and is a great complement to Ray Rice. The most encouraging part about keeping McGahee is the committment it shows on Bisciotti's part. With teams recently releasing runningbacks because of high cap numbers, Bisciotti is willing to keep McGahee's high cap number because he is a great asset to these team, even though he is a backup. No way I would trade McGahee and a draft pick for Cromartie. So we would trade a high pick for Cromartie and a receiver? No thanks! Free agency starts on Friday at 12am, lets see what happens! It should be interesting to see if a team signs Marshall to an offer sheet.

[colincac]

Anyone who honestly believes McGahee is worth more then Cromartie needs to go to a doctor immediately because that is fucking insane. RB's are plentiful, let alone RB's with McGahee's below average skills. Add in that he has a shitty contract, and I'd consider us lucky to be rid of him. Cromartie might not be a tackler, but neither was Deion Sanders. The guy is fantastic in coverage and I would kill to bring him in. We actually could, GASP, blitz effectively again.

 

I also don't think we need McGahee. I'd rather bring in a FB in Free Agency or the Draft and move back to McClain as the backup HB and goalline/short yardage RB. People have already forgotten how great he was 2 years ago in that role.

[varaven45]

Marshall for a 1st = Ozzie get it done.

 

My reluctance to trade for Marshall before was the multiple draft picks that were being touted around. For only a 1st this is a no brainer when you consider his production, off set all the troubles and then take a look at the WRs that will be available to you in the first couple of rounds of the draft.

 

McGahee + a 2nd or 3rd rounder for Cromartie = FAIL. The Chargers will do well to get a 2nd round pick on its own for Cromartie. I would be in favour of the move if it was McGahee and a 5th or 6th round pick but nothing more.

 

 

I totally agree. Get Marshall, leave Cromartie alone.

[ravensfanatic77]

McGahee does have some value to this team, you're right! But not enough that it should negate us thinking about trading him in a package for a CB like Cromartie! That is just crazy! We need a starting CB with Cromartie's skills more than a back up RB with McGahee's skills! Perhaps combining McGahee and a 2nd/3rd rounder was too much...but a 4th rounder seems fair for both teams, I guess!

 

There is plenty of RB depth this year in the draft that we can tap into in the 3rd-5th rounds to replace McGahee anyways!

 

For example:

Jonathan Dwyer, Georgia Tech, 5'11", 234

Montario Hardesty, Tennessee, 5'11", 204

Toby Gerhart, Stanford, 6'0", 237

Ben Tate, Auburn, 5'11", 214

LaGarrette Blount, 6'1", 245

 

.......Among others!

[ForceEight]

Anyone who honestly believes McGahee is worth more then Cromartie needs to go to a doctor immediately because that is fucking insane. RB's are plentiful, let alone RB's with McGahee's below average skills. Add in that he has a shitty contract, and I'd consider us lucky to be rid of him. Cromartie might not be a tackler, but neither was Deion Sanders. The guy is fantastic in coverage and I would kill to bring him in. We actually could, GASP, blitz effectively again.

 

I also don't think we need McGahee. I'd rather bring in a FB in Free Agency or the Draft and move back to McClain as the backup HB and goalline/short yardage RB. People have already forgotten how great he was 2 years ago in that role.

I'd love to know how 14 touchdowns makes McGahee "below average". Willis is probably still a top ten RB in the league; he just happens to be playing behind a top three RB.

 

And if Cromartie is so fantastic in coverage, why are the Chargers so willing to get rid of him? Why isn't he even a starter on their depth chart anymore?

[thundercleetz]

Some interesting ESPN Insider stats on Walter:

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/news/story?id=4964461

 

There are no elite vertical targets in this free-agent pool

 

 

 

Kevin Walter's metrics would beg to differ with that assessment. Walter's 15.0 vertical yards per attempt (YPA) ranked sixth among wideouts with at least 48 total targets in 2009 (a vertical pass being defined as a pass thrown 11 or more yards downfield).

 

 

 

To be fair, Walter had only 23 vertical passes thrown to him, but before the lack of volume is held against him, check out how his totals here fared against some other big-name wideouts:

 

 

 

Walter: 23 vertical attempts, 345 vertical yards, 15.0 vertical YPA

Percy Harvin: 35 vertical attempts, 423 vertical yards, 12.1 vertical YPA

Anquan Boldin: 37 vertical attempts, 519 vertical yards, 14.0 vertical YPA

Michael Crabtree: 45 vertical attempts, 545 vertical yards, 12.1 vertical YPA

 

 

 

 

Perhaps even more compelling: Walter had a higher vertical YPA than did Andre Johnson (14.5) in the very same offense.

 

 

 

Any way you slice it, these stats are illustrative of how Walter's overall volume and productivity stacked up versus some elite competition. He could be just the kind of impact downfield pass-catcher teams such as the Miami Dolphins and Baltimore Ravens are looking for.

[varaven45]

Some interesting ESPN Insider stats on Walter:

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/news/story?id=4964461

 

Cleetz,

 

Walter is attractive but only after you secure (or miss) Marshall. Walter isnt going to scare the opposing D; Marshall does and will.

If we fail with Marshall, Walter looks like a very good no. 2 or 3. Still need a No 1 guy and Ozzie needs to pull the trigger by this weekend.

If not, we are left with table scraps (after the elite receivers - Marshall - are gone) or a 1st round pick in draft.

 

Pull the right trigger Ozzie !

[colincac]

I'd love to know how 14 touchdowns makes McGahee "below average". Willis is probably still a top ten RB in the league; he just happens to be playing behind a top three RB.

 

And if Cromartie is so fantastic in coverage, why are the Chargers so willing to get rid of him? Why isn't he even a starter on their depth chart anymore?

Touchdowns are a worthless stat if they are all from inside the 5 yard line. I could've gotten 10 TD's from the spots Willis got the ball and the holes our offensive line gave him. Saying he's top 10 is absolutely hilarious. If you were to say that to anyone involved in the league, you would get laughed out of the room. Willis has absolutely lost his legs and the only reason he was halfway effective was because he barely had to carry the ball so his legs were fresh. Realistically, he's probably a top 30 RB, but what teams would you see him starting on?

 

The Chargers want to trade Cromartie because he wants big money and played poorly in last seasons playoffs, but he would immediately be our best corner, and theres no arguing that.

[colincac]

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/blog/2010/03/report_arizona_only_wants_thirdround_pick_for_boldin.html

 

Boldin can be had for a 3rd rounder. How about Marshall for a 2nd and Boldin for a 3rd!

[ForceEight]

Touchdowns are a worthless stat if they are all from inside the 5 yard line. I could've gotten 10 TD's from the spots Willis got the ball and the holes our offensive line gave him. Saying he's top 10 is absolutely hilarious. If you were to say that to anyone involved in the league, you would get laughed out of the room. Willis has absolutely lost his legs and the only reason he was halfway effective was because he barely had to carry the ball so his legs were fresh. Realistically, he's probably a top 30 RB, but what teams would you see him starting on?

 

The Chargers want to trade Cromartie because he wants big money and played poorly in last seasons playoffs, but he would immediately be our best corner, and theres no arguing that.

Is five yards per carry a worthless stat? The fact that McGahee plays behind one of the best backs in the league is the only reason he's lost value and notoriety. He would be a starter on quite a few teams. He would be a starter on this team if Rice wasn't the next coming of Jesus.

 

Cromartie played poorly for the entire 2008 season, and was BENCHED. This is not a recent occurrence. Ask anyone in San Diego how angry they are with him; for as physically gifted as he is, he should not struggle so much for so long, especially when totally healthy.

 

My argument isn't that we shouldn't get Cromartie, or that Cromartie can't be a good player again. It's simply that McGahee is a better and more valuable player, and that a straight up trade, much less one with a high pick (as suggested) added, is a sizable net loss in value for this team, and that's not how Ozzie works.

 

It won't ever happen.

[thundercleetz]

Cleetz,

 

Walter is attractive but only after you secure (or miss) Marshall. Walter isnt going to scare the opposing D; Marshall does and will.

If we fail with Marshall, Walter looks like a very good no. 2 or 3. Still need a No 1 guy and Ozzie needs to pull the trigger by this weekend.

If not, we are left with table scraps (after the elite receivers - Marshall - are gone) or a 1st round pick in draft.

 

Pull the right trigger Ozzie !

 

I completely agree. In an earlier post I stated a receiving corp of Marshall, Walter, Clayton, Stallworth, and a rookie would be amazing! Walter is more comfortable in a #2 role next to a superstar receiver, and Clayton and Stallworth have different types of talents and could switch in the #3 role.

 

Touchdowns are a worthless stat if they are all from inside the 5 yard line. I could've gotten 10 TD's from the spots Willis got the ball and the holes our offensive line gave him. Saying he's top 10 is absolutely hilarious. If you were to say that to anyone involved in the league, you would get laughed out of the room. Willis has absolutely lost his legs and the only reason he was halfway effective was because he barely had to carry the ball so his legs were fresh. Realistically, he's probably a top 30 RB, but what teams would you see him starting on?

 

The Chargers want to trade Cromartie because he wants big money and played poorly in last seasons playoffs, but he would immediately be our best corner, and theres no arguing that.

 

Yeah, tell our offense that who couldn't score against the Colts on the one-yard line or against the Packers. And Willis didn't have his legs? What are you talking about. The guy is only 28-years old, and was in phenominal shape. He had his burst, power, vision, and breakaway speed back this season, and was definitely an asset in the goal-line situations. I would also say that talent-wise McGahee is a top-ten back. It seems like he has finally gotten the message of how to be successfull in this league. Why let him go now and tear it up for someone else. Sure, I would trade him straight up for Cromartie, but I am not giving up draft picks in addition, talking about getting laughed out of a room...

 

Cromartie is a gambler. If we do not improve our pass rush, he will be just as bad as any other corner on our team. It would be Gary Baxter all over again.

[thundercleetz]

Newsome doesn't rule out early move in free agency

 

The Ravens will be limited when free agency begins Friday, but general manager Ozzie Newsome refused to guarantee that it would be a quiet start for his team.

 

"It's up in the air," Newsome said Thursday. "Once we get into free agency, if there is an opportunity for us to better our football team, we will do so."

 

As one of the final eight teams in the playoffs, the Ravens will be limited more than other teams. The four teams that lost in the divisional round -- the Ravens Chargers, Cardinals and Cowboys -- may sign one unrestricted free agent for a contract with a first-year value of $5.8 million or more as well as any number of unrestricted free agents to contracts with a first-year value of $3.8 million or less.

 

Newsome was his usual tight-lipped self in regards to other topics:

 

*He refused to discuss negotiations with any of his unrestricted free agents, including wide receiver Derrick Mason.

 

*He wouldn't talk about the possibility of George Kokinis returning to the Ravens' front office.

 

*He wouldn't comment on any of the tenders on restricted free agents.

 

*But Newsome didn't rule out a possible trade this offseason.

 

You think Ozzie is targeting Walter?

[ForceEight]

Anyway, I'm really warming up to Walter over the last two days or so. I sincerely doubt that the front office will commit enough money to the receivers (considering the fact that Demetrius Williams was tendered) to sign two big contract guys, whether those two are any combination of Marshall, Boldin, Walter, Owens, or whatever.

 

Walter will certainly cost less than Boldin or Marshall, and he does all the things both of them do. He has excellent hands, he has no problem going over the middle, and like you posted just a bit ago, Cleetz, he has huge downfield potential.

 

It's not a flashy signing and it's not the "all in this year, or bust" attempt that we're looking for, but I think we could do just fine to sign Walter, draft a big-time college receiver (I don't really have a strong opinion on any of those to be honest; we just damn sure better not draft Golden Tate), and pick up a Burleson, Chambers, etc. for pennies on the dollar.

 

I think it could definitely work, and in all honesty, I think it's what Ozzie and Co. would prefer.

[ForceEight]

You think Ozzie is targeting Walter?

There have been numerous reports already that they're looking hard at him. I don't think they'd invest all that time without at least offering him something.

[thundercleetz]

Anyway, I'm really warming up to Walter over the last two days or so. I sincerely doubt that the front office will commit enough money to the receivers (considering the fact that Demetrius Williams was tendered) to sign two big contract guys, whether those two are any combination of Marshall, Boldin, Walter, Owens, or whatever.

 

Walter will certainly cost less than Boldin or Marshall, and he does all the things both of them do. He has excellent hands, he has no problem going over the middle, and like you posted just a bit ago, Cleetz, he has huge downfield potential.

 

It's not a flashy signing and it's not the "all in this year, or bust" attempt that we're looking for, but I think we could do just fine to sign Walter, draft a big-time college receiver (I don't really have a strong opinion on any of those to be honest; we just damn sure better not draft Golden Tate), and pick up a Burleson, Chambers, etc. for pennies on the dollar.

 

I think it could definitely work, and in all honesty, I think it's what Ozzie and Co. would prefer.

 

My ideal situation would be to sign Walter and trade for Boldin or Marshall. That would give us an excellent one-two punch with Stallworth and Clayton rounding out a very talented receiving corp.

[REEDPIXOFF]

There have been numerous reports already that they're looking hard at him. I don't think they'd invest all that time without at least offering him something.

 

 

Keyshawn Johnson: "Hey it is true though. You want a bum, you pay a bum."

 

Flacco is never gonna get better in the playoffs if we keep opting for the bum.

[cravnravn]

Cromartie is a gambler. If we do not improve our pass rush, he will be just as bad as any other corner on our team. It would be Gary Baxter all over again.

 

As is Ed Reed no?? And we do just fine.

 

But I agree, our 1st pick, if we dont get Marshall should be a DT/DE got to get pressure on the QB, face it we will face the Colts again, most likely at LOS, and thats our nemesis, put pressure on Manning, make him throw early, and hopefully Cromratie will be bringing it back to the house.

[oldno82]

I agree! Now is the time to make our move for Marshall! Getting someone of his talent for the 25th pick in the draft is a no-brainer. With his talent and production he is worth a top 5 pick at this point! Did I mention he is only 25? We need to sign him to a 6 or 7 year deal and make this happen.

 

Furthermore, as an unrestricted FA...Kevin Walter should also be considered! He would be a beast as a #2 next to Marshall or a slot WR if we also retained Mason. Not to mention he is only 28 years old! So sick...think about it:

 

1. Marshall

2. Mason/Walter

3. Walter/Stallworth

4. Stallworth/Clayton

5. Clayton/Rookie

6. Rookie

 

I mean you can almost book the AFC championship game off that alone!

 

Now, what about McGahee and a 2nd or 3rd rounder for Cromartie? If we pulled that off with the above scenarios...we have one hell of a ball club overnight! Remember, Cromartie is only 25 years old too!

 

I know we don't like trading away draft picks and the Ravens are great at drafting, but to get elite players and positions of need who are still well in their prime if not there yet for a couple draft picks is a no brain decision. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think restricted FA acquisitions and trades have no restrictions as a "top 8" team as opposed to the UFA rules...right?

 

Agree with all the above. We should sign Walter regardless of what happens with the other WR pickup but I'm hoping for Marshall/ Walter/Stallworth/Clayton! And if we can swing a #2 for Cromartie I'd give that up too.

[oldno82]

I'd also be happy with Boldin/Walter/Stallworth/Mason or Boldin/Walter/Stallworth/Clayton.

[ravensfanatic77]

Here's an interesting player to keep your eye on:

 

From ESPN insider:

While the Patriots will remain linked to the whole Brandon Marshall fiasco, there might be another Marshall that is on their radar as well.

 

The Carolina Panthers placed a second round RFA tender on CB Richard Marshall this week, and that's not a huge bounty to give up in exchange for a promising young player at one of the sport's most vital positions. Albert Breer of the Boston Globe thinks that the Patriots could make a strong push for Marshall depending on the negotiations with Leigh Bodden.

 

What do you guys think about looking at Richard Marshall for CB? He's a former 1st rounder out of Fresno State, and is only 25 years old.

Productive last year with 88 tackles and 4 INT. Has good size at 5'11" and 190 lbs according to ESPN. Is he worth a look?

[colincac]

Yeah, tell our offense that who couldn't score against the Colts on the one-yard line or against the Packers. And Willis didn't have his legs? What are you talking about. The guy is only 28-years old, and was in phenominal shape. He had his burst, power, vision, and breakaway speed back this season, and was definitely an asset in the goal-line situations. I would also say that talent-wise McGahee is a top-ten back. It seems like he has finally gotten the message of how to be successfull in this league. Why let him go now and tear it up for someone else. Sure, I would trade him straight up for Cromartie, but I am not giving up draft picks in addition, talking about getting laughed out of a room...

 

Cromartie is a gambler. If we do not improve our pass rush, he will be just as bad as any other corner on our team. It would be Gary Baxter all over again.

28 years old and we all remember the horrific injury. The fact that multiple people actually believe Willis McGahee is a top 10 back all of the sudden is the biggest display of homerism I have ever seen on this board. Willis in my opinion wasn't even that good on the goal-line, he got stuffed often, which probably wouldn't have happened with McClain, who never goes down from the first tackler. I guarantee if you polled players in the nfl, scouts, or even fans of the top RB's, that McGahee would not SNIFF the top ten, he flat out isn't even close to being that good.

[SpearSrai]

28 years old and we all remember the horrific injury. The fact that multiple people actually believe Willis McGahee is a top 10 back all of the sudden is the biggest display of homerism I have ever seen on this board. Willis in my opinion wasn't even that good on the goal-line, he got stuffed often, which probably wouldn't have happened with McClain, who never goes down from the first tackler. I guarantee if you polled players in the nfl, scouts, or even fans of the top RB's, that McGahee would not SNIFF the top ten, he flat out isn't even close to being that good.

 

This is 100% correct. I challenge all of you guys to name the top 15 backs, and we'll see where McGahee falls in. It's nowhere near the top at this point in time, despite a few decent runs last season (and one amazing stiff-arm). I just hope San Diego was as fooled as you guys were.

[thundercleetz]

28 years old and we all remember the horrific injury. The fact that multiple people actually believe Willis McGahee is a top 10 back all of the sudden is the biggest display of homerism I have ever seen on this board. Willis in my opinion wasn't even that good on the goal-line, he got stuffed often, which probably wouldn't have happened with McClain, who never goes down from the first tackler. I guarantee if you polled players in the nfl, scouts, or even fans of the top RB's, that McGahee would not SNIFF the top ten, he flat out isn't even close to being that good.

 

I said talent-wise Willis is a top ten guy. That is different than actually being a top ten runningback. You could say the same about Cromartie talent-wise at corner, but he is not a top ten corner. Nevertheless, I am happy with keeping McGahee. I do agree, I would like the see McClain some more on the goal-line, but Willis is a good goal-line back in his own right. He can hit holes that McClain can't.

[ForceEight]

Cromartie is a Jet, so this argument can die.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/04/antonio-cromartie-is-headed-to-the-jets/

[thundercleetz]

Here are the latest rumors:

 

- The Dolphins are making a hard push for Mason

- We are out on Marshall as it looks like he is headed to Seattle (did they offer their first for him?)