4 Games, a Million Bucks, First round Pick

[papasmurfbell]

Could be.

[vmax]

Interesting point from Weinman

 

@KenWeinmanSport: Interesting point re #DeflateGate http://t.co/fqLide4fol

 

He's guilty as shit and he knows it. He knows Krafty and Bellicheat have his back so everything's cool in his world.

He'll just keep saying, "I did not have sex with that woman."

 

[dc.]

That article says they interviewed him for times and then never did a fifth after request. Kraft says it's because pats didn't think it necessary, but attorney says, we just wanted it via phone...

 

 

It's all a crock. On both sides. That said, I don't blame NFL for saying phone isn't good enough.

[dc.]

no up roar when the;

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/minnesota-vikings/post/_/id/11218/nfl-aware-of-game-ball-incident-during-panthers-vikings

 

 

 

nor when:

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000091683/article/san-diego-chargers-fined-20k-by-nfl-in-towel-case

 

 

 

 

So $20 k for trying to "cover up" the "crime that was not a crime in the Chargers case, but no draft picks taken from them.

 

In the Vikes' case, nothing was done, even though they were caught, "red" handed... Keep it up Goody, you will soon be out of a job.......

But do previous strikes matter in punishment? They do in virtually all other circumstances - NFL and otherwise.

[ForceEight]

But do previous strikes matter in punishment? They do in virtually all other circumstances - NFL and otherwise.

Also in the Vikings/Panthers story, I'm pretty sure both teams were warned and nothing else because both teams were warming the balls. Thus, competitive advantage is eliminated.

 

The Chargers' towel issue is a little stranger to me, and I remember being annoyed with it at the time

[cravnravn]

I have no issue with the supposed face of the NFL being made an example of. This year and the next two seasons we will be reminded of how the Pats cheated. I still think there should be some notation along side the super bowl champion for last season.

[papasmurfbell]

Don't hold your breath.

[tsylvester]

Pats rebutal to the report-

get the popcorn ready.....

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/15/sports/football/patriots-criticize-wells-report-in-lengthy-rebuttal.html?_r=0

 

 

 

The rebuttal says that “basic science fully explains the drop in psi of the Patriots footballs.” It defends the decision not to turn over Patriots quarterback Tom Brady’s cellphone and the locker room attendant Jim McNally’s removal of footballs from the officials’ room.

It also suggests that a text mention of “deflator” referred to McNally’s efforts to lose weight.

The rebuttal, titled, “Wells Report in Context” and prepared by Daniel L. Goldberg, a senior partner in the Boston office of Morgan Lewis, is a nearly line-by-line response to the executive summary of the report, which was a result of an investigation by the lawyer Theodore V. Wells Jr.

 

As was true for the Wells report, no detail is too small for the rebuttal. In discussing a trip McNally made to the bathroom while carrying a bag of footballs, it says: “The report does not address whether one minute and 40 is consistent with the time that it takes a gentleman to enter a bathroom, relieve himself, wash his hands and leave. In fact, it is.”

The detail that is likely to receive the most attention is an explanation of a text exchange between McNally and another employee, John Jastremski, in which McNally refers to himself as “the deflator.”

“Mr. Jastremski would sometimes work out and bulk up — he is a slender guy and his goal was to get to 200 pounds,” the rebuttal says. “Mr. McNally is a big fellow and had the opposite goal: to lose weight. ‘Deflate’ was a term they used to refer to losing weight.”

 

The rebuttal also includes an analysis by Roderick MacKinnon, a professor at Rockefeller University and a Nobel Prize winner in chemistry. MacKinnon concludes that the reduction in pressure in the footballs “can be explained on the basis of physical law, without manipulation.”

“The scientific analysis in the Wells report was a good attempt to seek the truth, however, it was based on data that are simply insufficient,” he writes.

 

[tsylvester]

But do previous strikes matter in punishment? They do in virtually all other circumstances - NFL and otherwise.

 

 

Sure, but the NFL has stated the Pats, as an org, played no role in this matter, so why take drastic step of draft pick deletions? Why the "large" fine if all they did was not be compliant, in the NFL's opinion?

 

I can understand the stiff penalty on Brady, to some extent, based on what they think was his role in this, his lack of communication with the league, but he had no role in the SpyGate issue.

 

As for "cheating", the NFL has handed down lessr penalties to players who cheat, whether it is with vasiline, cooking spray, stickem or other "advanatges" players use to gain an "unfair advanatge". They, like Brady, are not fully honest with what they do/did, so why is he not only fined (loss of salary) but also kept out of four games, when a lineman who sprays down his jersies is, on average, only fined roughly $50k max. Seems to me, being able to hold their block or keep from getting held has just as much affect on the game, if not more, than letting air out of the ball...

[dc.]

 

 

Sure, but the NFL has stated the Pats, as an org, played no role in this matter, so why take drastic step of draft pick deletions? Why the "large" fine if all they did was not be compliant, in the NFL's opinion?

 

I can understand the stiff penalty on Brady, to some extent, based on what they think was his role in this, his lack of communication with the league, but he had no role in the SpyGate issue.

 

As for "cheating", the NFL has handed down lessr penalties to players who cheat, whether it is with vasiline, cooking spray, stickem or other "advanatges" players use to gain an "unfair advanatge". They, like Brady, are not fully honest with what they do/did, so why is he not only fined (loss of salary) but also kept out of four games, when a lineman who sprays down his jersies is, on average, only fined roughly $50k max. Seems to me, being able to hold their block or keep from getting held has just as much affect on the game, if not more, than letting air out of the ball...

Re: the organization...

 

Organizations are frequently held responsible for the actions of their employees at all levels, especially in realms that go beyond an individual's actions (ie out want just stealing, it was streaking for someone). " I didn't know " generally isn't an acceptable response from leadership on such matters, especially if there is any previous history of a problem and/or non compliance. Like it or not, it's why people who are injured or hurt or otherwise harmed sure not just the individual employee, but the business as well who is responsible for the employee in many circumstances.

 

One cook didn't wash his hands and spreads some e coli around... It's not just him getting fired, the whole restaurant is getting some big strikes for a systemic failure.

[ForceEight]

 

 

Sure, but the NFL has stated the Pats, as an org, played no role in this matter, so why take drastic step of draft pick deletions?

 

 

Where is there evidence of that? The only subject cleared of wrongdoing by the league is Belichick.

[tsylvester]

 

Where is there evidence of that? The only subject cleared of wrongdoing by the league is Belichick.

 

 

I am still looking for the quote from the league, sorry I will find it.

 

However, I did come across this nugget-

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/07/nfl-initially-gave-patriots-bad-information-about-psi-readings/

 

 

The Wells report notes that not a single measurement of any of the New England footballs reflected a PSI reading of 10.1. In fact, only one measurement of one football was as low as 10.5 PSI.

The Wells report also points out that Gardi’s comments about the Colts’ game balls was not accurate. On one of the two gauges used to test the footballs, THREE of the four Colts balls tested were UNDER the limit of 12.5 PSI.

 

 

 

 

Hello, 3 of 4 tested of the balls from the Colts in the same game. This is the first I have heard of this fact. I'll keep digging for the quote from the league say as an organization, they knew nothing about this, maybe it was just conjecture from a talking head, my memory is not as good as it was...

[tsylvester]

Re: the organization...

 

Organizations are frequently held responsible for the actions of their employees at all levels, especially in realms that go beyond an individual's actions (ie out want just stealing, it was streaking for someone). " I didn't know " generally isn't an acceptable response from leadership on such matters, especially if there is any previous history of a problem and/or non compliance. Like it or not, it's why people who are injured or hurt or otherwise harmed sure not just the individual employee, but the business as well who is responsible for the employee in many circumstances.

 

One cook didn't wash his hands and spreads some e coli around... It's not just him getting fired, the whole restaurant is getting some big strikes for a systemic failure.

 

 

Oh, I agree, you have to hold the entire org responsible for the actions of their employees over all. However, in this case, hitting them as a team so hard when other teams with infractions are not hit nearly to this extent when they have had previous issues with the league's rules, does smell of another PR move by the league.

[dc.]

You know, Brady and the Pats tried to explain a lot... But still haven't seen anything that explains or contradicts these messages:

 

McNally: Tom sucks. I'm going to make the next ball a f---ing balloon.

 

Jastremski: Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done. ... The refs f----d us. A few of them were at almost 16 [pounds per square inch, well above the required 12.5 to 13.5 psi].

 

McNally: Make sure you blow up the ball to look like a rugby ball so Tom can get used to it before Sunday.

 

Jastremski: Can't wait to give you your needle this week.

 

McNally: F--- Tom. Make sure the pump is attached to the needle. F-----g watermelons coming.

 

Jastremski: So angry.

 

 

Not only do those messages imply Brady was in on it, not only do they imply it happened, they even reference how hard it must be to make it happen under the supervision of the refs and league...

[vmax]

 

 

Deflategate has suddenly blown up into a power struggle between a commissioner struggling to clean up the NFL's image and one of its most prominent owners and most successful superstars.

It will be fascinating to see who wins and who loses. Don't be surprised if Brady doesn't miss a minute of action.http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/linda-robertson-don%e2%80%99t-be-surprised-if-nfls-deflategate-case-falls-flat-on-appeal/ar-BBjOumC?ocid=iehp

[tsylvester]

You know, Brady and the Pats tried to explain a lot... But still haven't seen anything that explains or contradicts these messages:

 

McNally: Tom sucks. I'm going to make the next ball a f---ing balloon.

 

Jastremski: Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done. ... The refs f----d us. A few of them were at almost 16 [pounds per square inch, well above the required 12.5 to 13.5 psi].

 

McNally: Make sure you blow up the ball to look like a rugby ball so Tom can get used to it before Sunday.

 

Jastremski: Can't wait to give you your needle this week.

 

McNally: F--- Tom. Make sure the pump is attached to the needle. F-----g watermelons coming.

 

Jastremski: So angry.

 

 

Not only do those messages imply Brady was in on it, not only do they imply it happened, they even reference how hard it must be to make it happen under the supervision of the refs and league...

 

 

 

Well, that depends on how you read them. Take the clue from the footballs they were talking about the refs giving them; 16 lbs or so of air, well above the limits.

 

That alone says a lot about the procedure the refs go through, how flawed it is. So yes, they, the "Pats" had to let air out just to get with in limits.

 

Now, as I pointed out in another article above, even the Colts footballs were under and the refs had different readings on the same football, from two different gauges.

 

Thus, the "Pats" could have let air out, but their gauge read with in limits, while another gauge would read below limits.

 

It is very plausable, which would mean Goody & company went too far.

 

Truth, who knows, but I see plenty of room in attacking the procedure to get the fines, draft picks, and suspension lowered maybe even over turned.

[dc.]

But I think the biggest strike here is that it seems to indicate that Brady knew these guys and their working and job, which is a direct contradiction to all that Brady said about his knowledge of staff and equipment procedure. "I just pick the ones I like and that's it." But clearly, he's talked to these guys about what he likes and know them.

[papasmurfbell]

But I think the biggest strike here is that it seems to indicate that Brady knew these guys and their working and job, which is a direct contradiction to all that Brady said about his knowledge of staff and equipment procedure. "I just pick the ones I like and that's it." But clearly, he's talked to these guys about what he likes and know them.

But I think the procedural issue will blow all that out of the water. If the officials can't get it right when things are met to be legit then try to hold other accountable when the evidence is not iron clad.

[deeshopper]

 

It also suggests that a text mention of “deflator” referred to McNally’s efforts to lose weight.

 

 

[tsylvester]

Pats won't appeal fine nor draft picks.

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/kraft-patriots-wont-appeal-teams-fine-draft-penalties/ar-BBjY5CI?ocid=U142DHP

 

 

 

Kraft said Tuesday at the owners meetings that he was putting the league before his franchise because "at no time should the agenda of one team outweigh the collective good of the 32."

The Patriots will lose a first-round draft pick next year and a fourth-rounder in 2017.

"When the discipline came out, I felt it was way over the top," Kraft said, adding that if he had made his decision last week, it might have been a different one.

But after further consideration, he cited "believing in the strength of the (NFL) partnership and the 32 teams" for dropping any appeal plans.

Kraft also recognized the powers given to Commissioner Roger Goodell.

"I do have respect for the commissioner and believe he is doing what he perceives to be in the best interest of the 32," Kraft added.

 

 

 

 

Hmm, sure, sure, wonder what deal he worked out with Goody....

[cravnravn]

Cause he's guilty, that's why theres no appeal

[RavenMad]

Cause he's guilty, that's why theres no appeal

 

Yep. The Patriots bluffed, got called and now have folded like a cheap suit.

[cravnravn]

And if Tammy was smart he drop his appeal too, if he doesn't he will be forced to turnover his cell phone and that might lead to a bigger suspension.just like Ray Rice he has handed down a two game suspension, then when the video magically appeared, it ended his career.

[papasmurfbell]

Or Tom's lawyer subpoenas all kinds of info that Goody and the league want kept private. At that point they wither like the cowards they are.

[ForceEight]

Or Tom's lawyer subpoenas all kinds of info that Goody and the league want kept private. At that point they wither like the cowards they are.

Zero chance that ever happens.