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Tornado700

Lack of talent on full display

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In talking about Ozzie's miss on Elam, just about everyone missed on their safties in that class except

SF who got Eric Reid. He did pretty well his first two years but the rest sucked including Elam.

 

Saints suspended their guy taken in the 20th spot before Elam. I forget his name but after showing promise as a rookie he was suspended in his second year.

 

The guy most of us wanted was Cyprien who was better in coverage than Elam while Elam was the better hitter or supposidly but Cyprien didn't do much better for Tenn, I think it was. He was rated only a few spots higher than Elam but he played in a defense that was more suited for him but he still didn't do great.

 

That year was just a poor year for Safties except for Reid. Not sure how he did last year or now.

 

BTW, when Ozzie drafted Ed Reed he didn't know Ed would be as great as he was. He never knows how a player will turn out even guys like Heap, Jamal and JO. Phil Savage told us that at the Barn one year. He said we didn't know those guys would be the stars they became when we drafted the. We hoped they would be we never knew for sure.

 

Back to Reed, the guy most of us wanted in that draft was Lito Shepherd, a top CB, which we needed. We had around the 25th or 26th pick that year. I was at the draft party at the stadium and Tom Matte was doing the radio show with Tom. They were guessing Lito and were shocked when Oz took Reed.

 

Kiper said that Reed was the safe pick at the time and he said it for Elam. Now, Lito turned out to have

a good career but Reed had a great career but he was the best player in that entire draft and no body

knew it. Same with Brady, everyone was wrong with him. he went in the 6th round after Ozzie took

Chris Redman. Everyone was calling him the next Unitas because he went to Louisville. He was a joke

but Brady should have been the first player taken. Bellicheat lucked out getting him at the bottom

and now he's the greatest coach ever.

 

Back to Elam, he was projected in the first round and went there but has been a bust like all the

top safties taken except Eric Reid.

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Ozzie has missed on most every secondary and line backer picks the past five drafts. Extending Will Hill and Jimmy Smith were panic moves too boot. It is time for Ozzie to retire, his history of missing on receivers and now secondary players is enough.... The Super Bowl win saved him but the evidence is quite clear; he has lost the touch or his staff has, maybe both....

 

Even Mosley can only rush the passer from time to time or scoup up a fumble, big whoop. He is no where to be found in pass coverage, still, and still runs around blocks missing out on tackles. Sure, he may run them down 8 yards down field, big whoop.....

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Tim - not sure I disagree on Ozzie, but the question is then: so who else? I don't know enough about how our FO works in drafts, but I can't believe that for the past X years Ozzie has paid a huge staff - and great staff - but then makes picks that they consistently don't like or don't agree with. So it can't be his misses alone, right?

 

Ozzie retires. Do we just go to DeCosta? Is he really any different? I mean, I respect the guy but if he is in the system then he can't really be anything but a part of the probem?

 

In the end - not sure the FO is the biggest issue here. But just a question that lingers if we go that direction.

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The day Ozzie retires is the day we will regret. DeCosta is being over paid

now to take his place. He makes more than most GMs today to keep him

here. If OZ were fired, 30 teams would line up to hire him with an open check book.

 

Look at last year. It took NE who would be the SB champs to use some well timed

trickery and the bending of the rules to beat a beat up secondary in NE in February

after Ravens D gave up 2 leads during the game.

 

He brought in Melvin who wasn't even playing football at the end of the year. He wins

with Melvin for the first time ever in a PO game in Pissburgh and with and undrafted rookie

LT starting, a land mark event since that had never happened before in a PO game.

Pissburgh fans said imagine us starting an undrafted rookie at LT.

 

Ozzie is the best drafter this side of Bellicheat who groomed him in Cleveland.

Dont forget he won the SB within 3 yrs after the Ravens came here. He won a recent

one and fielded the most dominant team in the past 12 yrs in football this side of

NE. He made the POs 5 years in a row and 6 of 7 years and will likely miss it

this year. I posted a link a few years ago that Ozzie still has more players playing

than any other GM. I think it was like 82%.

 

Also, look at all the draft picks he gets from the comp list. So many players are so

good they get their payday elsewhere and Ozzie gets another draft pick. He had 11 players

this year and next yr too I think. After trading Ngata he got a 4th and a 5th from DET

and one turned out to be Maxx. He used the pick to trade up to get him. I think

Zadarius Smith was the other one.

 

DeCosta scares the shit out of me. I told him at a Nest 1 meeting a week after the

Oher draft that he f*cked up the Oher draft. Oher and Kruger are no longer with us

and the Ravens didn't even try to sign them.

 

DeCosta said Oher was a better player than Nicks whom I wanted and Joe needed

weapons after losing in Pissburgh again for the POs. So Nicks goes to the Giants

and 2 SBs and was the go to guy at the end of their first win.

 

I think Oz is 57 and I'm hoping he sticks around til he's at least 65.

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I don't believe Oz is the problem. I haven't agreed with every decision he has made but he has earned the benefit of the doubt. There is only so many things he can fix in one offseason. Perhaps he has relied too much in the belief that this coaching staff can develop some of the young WRs and secondary players in to world beaters and to date that hasn't happened.

 

My guess is everyone gets one more shot to turn it around. It's going to be interesting to see what happens at the WR spot, Pass Rushers and secondary. Those are the 3 areas we need urgent upgrades.

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I don't believe Oz is the problem. I haven't agreed with every decision he has made but he has earned the benefit of the doubt. There is only so many things he can fix in one offseason. Perhaps he has relied too much in the belief that this coaching staff can develop some of the young WRs and secondary players in to world beaters and to date that hasn't happened.

 

My guess is everyone gets one more shot to turn it around. It's going to be interesting to see what happens at the WR spot, Pass Rushers and secondary. Those are the 3 areas we need urgent upgrades.

 

 

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over & over and expecting a different outcome. Since 1996, Ozzie, after being forced to get ride of two of the best wide receivers in the game in Michael Jackson & Derrick Alexander, has misssed on every single wide out, everyone! They have never developed one; never.

 

So why would he keep trying this method? Joe is a franchise quarterback but he is no Aaron Rogers nor Tom Brady. Those two can make any receiver look good. The Ravens caught magic in a bottle one season when they won the Super Bowl with scrub receivers, none of the starters are on this team any longer and are barely producing in the NFL today.

 

We can say what we want about Jimmy Smith, Chris McAllister, Duanne Starks and Webb. They were/are decent corners, starters yes, Webb a better fit as a slot man. But none of them, due to injury, or off the field issues, was a shut down corner. Outside of 4 since 1996, who has Ozzie, who has been the constant, drafted in the secondary that turned out to be dependable?

 

Safties, great, a Hall of Famer in Ed Reed. but then who since 1996?

 

Offensive lineman, a make shift crew since 1996, a Hall of Famer, great! A solid player in Ed Mulitavo, love him, a career very good player, then who? The jury is still out on this line, who had one really good year last year, but Ozzie's history says this line won't stick around because he doesn't pay offensive line playes unless your name is MIke Flynn..............

 

Running backs, Jamal, great, then who?

 

Great, he did what most GM's have never done; Drafted not one or two, but 4 Hall of Famers, 3 for certain, Suggs, maybe not. The team has won 2 Super Bowls in 20 some odd years, fabulous- but any good football fan knows how much luck plays a role in winning the big game.

 

The past five years, Ozzie has not drafted players who turned out. Is that his eye or is that the staff who cannot train them, teach them? He hires the staff as well, keep that in mind.

 

Who is best to replace him? Great question, I am not into the game as deeply as I used to be, so I cannot offer any help there. I can, with my eyes, see that the talent level on this team has fallen off greatly in the past five years or so all because of poor drafts. So either the scouting has be be gone or some one between them & Ozzie.

 

Shoot, most of us on this baord, on other boards, have called out players the team has drafted and said they would be busts and uess, what? We have been more right than wrong and we are just looking with our eyes!

 

 

It is looking like last year was an abberition, that 8-8 or worse, maybe the norm, we shall see...

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I'm willing to give Oz a pass for now. He couldn't predict the Kindle and Perriman injuries and he's done well considering how far down wev been drafting because of our on-field success.

 

I don't like the Boldin move most of all. We shoulda paid the man.

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Oz has not been perfect, no one can be...misses in the first two rounds are not good. Outstanding/productive draftees on the present roster include:

 

C Davis

J Flacco

T Jernigan

S Koch

C Mosley

K Osemele

J Smith

T Suggs

C Upshaw

J Urschel

L Webb

M Yanda

B Williams

D Pitta

 

Other recent notable non-whiffs include:

 

T Smith

McPhee

Ngata

A Jones

B Grubbs

J Brown

Taliafero

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The team's decline - talent, performance, production has been well documented. And agreed we road the coat tails of the D - Ray, Reed & Suggs - and caught lightning in a bottle in 2013. The D is, for all practical purposes, done and gone. And the O isn't far behind. Coaching-wise, we appear to be lost, out of touch with the winning formula that is apparent in places like Pats-Bellichick, Packers - Mc Carthy. Perhaps its a function of QB or just a winning culture. Even Cincy's Marvin Lewis is schooling Harbaugh. Haven't they defeated us 5 or 6 in a row ?

 

My point- there is mucho blame to go around and a lot of stuff to fix. It may be that the Biscuit has a a FO, coaching and personnel rebuild in front of him. Note, this is not another sky is falling remark but a realistic observation about an organization in need of changes, if it wants to return to viability in today's NFL.

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Oz has not been perfect, no one can be...misses in the first two rounds are not good. Outstanding/productive draftees on the present roster include:

 

C Davis

J Flacco

T Jernigan

S Koch

C Mosley

K Osemele

J Smith

T Suggs

C Upshaw

J Urschel

L Webb

M Yanda

B Williams

D Pitta

 

Other recent notable non-whiffs include:

 

T Smith

McPhee

Ngata

A Jones

B Grubbs

J Brown

Taliafero

 

 

No one is disputing Ozzie's record of great draft picks. I am saying the game has left him in the dust. Proof is in the past five years. It takes 3-5 years to realize a draft and here we are, save for last year.

 

All of those players you mentioned as being drafted lately are either not on this team, busts or still waiting to see if they will pan out, in Taliafero's case. He can't stay healthy so far. Arthur Jones is a complete bust, Brown and Grubbs are on their 2nd & 3rd team collecting pay checks.

 

McFee should have been kept because of age, talent and drive. They could have found a way to pay him. Unlike Dumervil, McFee can get his sacks against lineman and he is a force against the run too....Ngata was the smart move, his injuries are getting to him as well, he lost his consistancy.

 

but you also have to look at free agents Ozzie has brought in, more specifically on defense; busts. Will Hill remains to be seen, but so far he has not bee the safety he should be, His speed seems to be gone, he is ok around the LOS, but lost in coverage, late in getting over, in recognizing routes.

 

These defensive players seem to be in let them catch & tackle mode rather than breaking up passes....

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The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over & over and expecting a different outcome. Since 1996, Ozzie, after being forced to get ride of two of the best wide receivers in the game in Michael Jackson & Derrick Alexander, has misssed on every single wide out, everyone! They have never developed one; never.

 

So why would he keep trying this method? Joe is a franchise quarterback but he is no Aaron Rogers nor Tom Brady. Those two can make any receiver look good. The Ravens caught magic in a bottle one season when they won the Super Bowl with scrub receivers, none of the starters are on this team any longer and are barely producing in the NFL today.

 

We can say what we want about Jimmy Smith, Chris McAllister, Duanne Starks and Webb. They were/are decent corners, starters yes, Webb a better fit as a slot man. But none of them, due to injury, or off the field issues, was a shut down corner. Outside of 4 since 1996, who has Ozzie, who has been the constant, drafted in the secondary that turned out to be dependable?

 

Safties, great, a Hall of Famer in Ed Reed. but then who since 1996?

 

Offensive lineman, a make shift crew since 1996, a Hall of Famer, great! A solid player in Ed Mulitavo, love him, a career very good player, then who? The jury is still out on this line, who had one really good year last year, but Ozzie's history says this line won't stick around because he doesn't pay offensive line playes unless your name is MIke Flynn..............

 

Running backs, Jamal, great, then who?

 

Great, he did what most GM's have never done; Drafted not one or two, but 4 Hall of Famers, 3 for certain, Suggs, maybe not. The team has won 2 Super Bowls in 20 some odd years, fabulous- but any good football fan knows how much luck plays a role in winning the big game.

 

The past five years, Ozzie has not drafted players who turned out. Is that his eye or is that the staff who cannot train them, teach them? He hires the staff as well, keep that in mind.

 

Who is best to replace him? Great question, I am not into the game as deeply as I used to be, so I cannot offer any help there. I can, with my eyes, see that the talent level on this team has fallen off greatly in the past five years or so all because of poor drafts. So either the scouting has be be gone or some one between them & Ozzie.

 

Shoot, most of us on this baord, on other boards, have called out players the team has drafted and said they would be busts and uess, what? We have been more right than wrong and we are just looking with our eyes!

 

 

It is looking like last year was an abberition, that 8-8 or worse, maybe the norm, we shall see...

 

Jamal was followed by Ray Rice, another great runner who paved the way to their second SB. In fact,

the 08 draft with Flacco and Rice is one of the best in NFL history along with the JO and Ray Lewis drafts.

How many GMs get one much less two.

 

CJ Mosley just missed winning DROY and had a great rookie and sophmore year. He makes mistakes

but is still learning. He's bettern than Shazier drafted by Pissbugh. Also, Gilmore is turning out this

year catching two TDs in one game.

 

Polian the GM who drafted Manning and built the Colts and just made the HOF as a GM doesn't have as many

rings as Ozzie, same as the other GM who went in with him.

 

Ozzie should have at least 2 more rings but Billick blew it losing to Indy in 06. That was our SB but instead of runing

Jamal to wear them down he kept passing and McNair throws the pick up the middle. They left DEM WILLs all alone

in the end zone because they knew the pass was going up the middle.

 

Then there was the Lee Evans drop in NE just 25 secs from the SB and they still have a chance to tie the game with

a FG but Billy Goat choked because of rushing it due to a faulty score board in NE. Phil Savage even said

Billick blew the POs in 03 with 8 pro bowlers we gave him.

 

Ozzie should have another 3 rings with all the talent and a great like Ed Reed only comes along once in a

life time - same as Ray and JO.

 

Ozzie's downfall was not getting a QB and wasting all Ray's defenses all those years. He reached for Boller who

set the franchise back while NE got Wilfork with the Boller pick but nobody is perfect.

 

Ozzie would have gotten his second SB ring if Jamal Lewis doesn't go down for the year in the first day of camp in 01

but Shannan Sharpe always said we should have won the SB anyway but the team lost its swagger.

 

Look how he signed guys like McCrary and Adams the same year after bringing Goose in whom Marchibroda

knew in Indy and guys like Woodson and he drafted JO when the owner and all of Baltimore wanted Lawrence

Phillips who went to St Louis and then promptly to jail.

 

Look at guys like Ellerbe who helped win SB 47 blitzing KAP forcing him to over throw Crabtree who was

nicely covered by Jimmy Smith. He found Adelius Thomas at the bottom of the draft who became one of

the best ever.

 

Look at Ngata who helped win the SB coming up the middle always taking up 2 or 3 blockers and

always opening someone else.

 

Even after looking bad in the Boller draft Ozzie still got Suggs who was one of the greates LBs to ever

play and likely will be in the HOF. Suggs follows Jamie Sharper who also left for FA.

 

Look at Hartwell, another find who left for FA.

 

Ozzie has had some of the best undrafted finds in history in Priest Holmes and more recently

Hurst who started as the first undrafted LT in a wild card game and he won with him.

 

Tucker, one of the best kickers in history was signed as a Fa.

 

Koch, one of the best punters was signed as a FA.

 

Wagner was drafted in the 5th round and last year was rated as the 2d best RT in game. The right

side of the Ravens line was rated the best in football with Yanda, another all pro and Wagner. I

think he's injured this year.

 

BTW, none of his assistants fared well after leaving the nest. Phil Savage failed miserably in Cleve and his pal

Kokinis wasn't there as GM long enough to change his underware. The Shack lasted a few years in JAX

before getting fired.

 

That's another reason why DeCosta scares the shit out of me taking Ozzie's place one day.

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Ozzie has done and is doing a terrific job.

Since he drafted Joe, the Ravens have been drafting very late....because they field solid, deep winning rosters, despite having to stand almost last in the food line.

They get 1 player in the first 60 to go. That's a handicap that he's happy to have.

 

Then...we lose all our good players to free agency because the cap won't let you keep them.

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