Questions, Concerns and Doubts about Lamar

[tsylvester]

Hold the phone; no one is saying stop him from being Lamar, turn him into a more traditional pocket passer, if they are they are wrong.

His mechanics are fine, he is used to throwing off platform, that is normal for him.

I am saying, at least me, that he needs a better understanding of defenses, of making proper reads, of seeing the best matchup and YES, TAKR CARE OF THE DAGGONE BALL!

Stop the carelessness in the pocket, just tossing the ball up when about to be sacked; take the sack.

This is what Brown was eluding too after the game Sunday. Brown had single coverage on the outside with no safety help numerous times, yet no passes. Snead ( and anyone else in the slot) was matched up with a linebacker, a freaking linebacker.

Boykin was also singled up on the outside...

Make the throws, on time, see the matchups, presnap, properly go through the reads. If it is a zone, you know presnap who amd where to throw the ball.

[cravnravn]

The first 7 and 1/2 games we seen a Lamar we have not seen before. Whatever adjustment they made at the half is the Lamar we know and want to see. 

Frustrations ran high as he'll. I have to walk everyday for therapy and I listen to the Fan (still hate Preston). The past 4 weeks have been he'll even in a win we/fans find fault in Lamar.

If Lamar continues the play we seen in the 2nd half of todays game. We will be fine. We will turn the rage towards the defense. 

Happy Days are here again.

Edited November 8, 2020 by cravnravn

[vmax]

Hey crav! Good to see you around. Here...I hope this helps you during therapy..

You always bring out the worst in me.

Here's the change that happened in the second half for the Ravens O against a very good Indy D...according to our good friend John Eisenberg...........

Quote

But at halftime, Offensive Coordinator Greg Roman made a key decision: Let's pick up the tempo. Play out of the no-huddle on some downs and make quicker judgments on others. "It caught the defense off guard," Jackson said. Quite simply, everything changed. Jackson didn't miss a pass in the second half, hitting on all 10 of his attempts. The line gave him time to throw and also wore down the Colts' front. Jackson and backs J.K. Dobbins and Gus Edwards began to make gains. Incredibly, the Ravens had the ball for 32 of the first 36 offensive snaps after halftime, a period in which they turned a three-point deficit into an 11-point lead. The decision to change tempo was decisive......https://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/the-breakdown-eisenberg-s-five-thoughts-on-win-in-indy

Lamar threw 10 times in the second half, all completions.

Quote

Jackson tied Dan Marino for the best start to a quarterback's career with a 25-5 record in his first 30 starts.

And Just Remember : Russell Wilson had 2 INT's and lost 2 fumbles today as the Seahawks lost. It happens even to the great ones. Let's hope that's it for Lamar.

[tsylvester]

Look, the concern is still there; 2 passes outaide the numbers, one caught, one dropped. Other than that, nothing down the sidelines, nothing outside the numbers. Granted, those routes take time, and this line hasn't given him much. But the Colts were daring him to throw deep, single coverage on the outside; still no shots.

Is it the line & the time? Is it the coaches not making those #1 in progession?  Yes, up tempo worked, there were holes in the middle of the field for Boyle, Andrews, Snead, Brown on crossing routes. Yes, those plays eat up game clock, lead to long drives. But sooner or later this offense has to, will need a quick strike, and Lamar seems to be the only qb in the league who can't or won't make those throws.

[Spen]

Comments from CBS analyst Jason La Canfora about Lamar's "decline" on the Rich Eisen show.

“I just think that we have to have a little context here… He’s the single most prevelant, dominant reason that they are 6-2 is this kid.”

"He opens up all the stuff in the run game that very few people can… They’re still an elite rushing unit because of this man.” 

"What more should Lamar do?” Just let Lamar play. Lamar is the least of any problems here. How about people do more for Lamar.” 

"Greg Roman ain’t winning no coordinator of the year awards, either.” –Jason La Canfora

La Canfora noted that Jackson has dropped back 41 times on play-action plays through eight games. To put that in perspective, Dak Prescott had 40 such dropbacks in five games prior to injury. La Canfora also points out that Kyler Murray and Josh Allen both have had 70+ play-action dropbacks this year. It’s not a surprise that these three guys all enjoyed a lot of success this year thanks to playcalling surrounding their strengths. Perhaps Roman needs to take some notes.

“There’s things this kid can do. He’s a top-ten quarterback on play action but he’s 23rd in attempts.” 

Its a good listen: 

 

[papasmurfbell]

I watched the Buf Zona game.  Murray does Lamar but better than Lamar.  He can run but he throws well and to the right spot.

[tsylvester]

I've been screaming play action for weeks, but that is not the main problem as we saw last night once again. Clearly he can only make throws that are right in front of him, consistently.  The Pats ran mostly man and while Lamar had good numbers, numbers lie sometimes.  If he can't beat man defense, this team will never win consistently any longer. Last year will have been a fluke; teams not ready for him, now they are and big plays disappear.

Big games are still an issue, clearly.

[papasmurfbell]

Agreed

[varaven45]

Not an expert on the matter but it sure seems that Lamar needs strong mentoring/coaching plus a healthy, legit OL and receivers who actually get it.

He wont have this until next year at the earliest.  If, after this occurs, he hasn't corrected the situation then our future w/Lamar should be clear.

FWIW- If I'm the owner or GM, if he hasn't made the adjustments by next season, it will be time to move on.  Just my two cents..... 

               

[vmax]

Lamar can't play defense. He can't play O line and block. He can't run a route and throw to himself.

Granted he is 0-6 when trailing by 10 or more. He's not making passes to the sidelines. This is his short coming. His mountain to climb. He's 23 years old.

He can't defend this...  ... "Gotcha again!"

Can he snap the ball to himself?

I think he's around 24-6 as a starter. He wins. He's fun to watch. Electrifying. A play maker. Good character. Have you forgotten Flacco? Mitchel, Banks, Case, Dilfer (loved him but...), Grbac, Blake, Boller, ?!!!! 

My eyes still burn. they forced me into;

He's 1 player. This teams problems are not his fault or of his making.

 

[Spen]

I thought Lamar was really good last night in bad conditions. Even better considering three or 4 bad drops. 

24/34 249 yards 2 TDs 1 INT 55 yards rushing.

Yeah,  he was the problem last night........

[tsylvester]

Should have had two picks, missed a few open guys deep sown field when he chose to throw short. Those deep passes change games, win games. Was he the reason they lost? No, not by him self, that is not what I am saying. You want me to grade out the linmen? i will, the receivers? i will, start a thread on them or any position.

But we are talking about Lamar and what he needs to do to improve.

[varaven45]

Agreed the TEAM lost.  And at 23 with his makeshift OL, barely serviceable WRs and questionable play calling, Lamar can only do what can he do?

Still, at some point - maybe not this year - he will need to will the TEAM to victory, win the big ones, and yes a playoff game.   

He will get many chances to win, starting Sunday against the Titans.    

 

[papasmurfbell]

3 hours ago, varaven45 said:

Not an expert on the matter but it sure seems that Lamar needs strong mentoring/coaching plus a healthy, legit OL and receivers who actually get it.

He wont have this until next year at the earliest.  If, after this occurs, he hasn't corrected the situation then our future w/Lamar should be clear.

FWIW- If I'm the owner or GM, if he hasn't made the adjustments by next season, it will be time to move on.  Just my two cents..... 

               

Unfortunately his value is being damaged horribly.   So getting something for him is problematic.

 

 

2 hours ago, vmax said:

Lamar can't play defense. He can't play O line and block. He can't run a route and throw to himself.

Granted he is 0-6 when trailing by 10 or more. He's not making passes to the sidelines. This is his short coming. His mountain to climb. He's 23 years old.

He can't defend this...  ... "Gotcha again!"

Can he snap the ball to himself?

I think he's around 24-6 as a starter. He wins. He's fun to watch. Electrifying. A play maker. Good character. Have you forgotten Flacco? Mitchel, Banks, Case, Dilfer (loved him but...), Grbac, Blake, Boller, ?!!!! 

My eyes still burn. they forced me into;

He's 1 player. This teams problems are not his fault or of his making.

 

He was having issues before parts started dropping off.  The coaching staff are not putting himself in a place to succeed.  

But with your point that Lamar can't do everything all over the field, how do you expect Lamar to thrive when he gets paid and is about 25% of the cap?

 

 

1 hour ago, Spen said:

I thought Lamar was really good last night in bad conditions. Even better considering three or 4 bad drops. 

24/34 249 yards 2 TDs 1 INT 55 yards rushing.

Yeah,  he was the problem last night........

Were you watching that game?  That pick was atrocious and all him.  He had other close calls.  He keeps doing that week after week. 

 

 

13 minutes ago, tsylvester said:

Should have had two picks, missed a few open guys deep sown field when he chose to throw short. Those deep passes change games, win games. Was he the reason they lost? No, not by him self, that is not what I am saying. You want me to grade out the linmen? i will, the receivers? i will, start a thread on them or any position.

But we are talking about Lamar and what he needs to do to improve.

Exactly.  Also it is more than 1 game.  We have a sample set to judge on.

 

 

5 minutes ago, varaven45 said:

Agreed the TEAM lost.  And at 23 with his makeshift OL, barely serviceable WRs and questionable play calling, Lamar can only do what can he do?

Still, at some point - maybe not this year - he will need to will the TEAM to victory, win the big ones, and yes a playoff game.   

He will get many chances to win, starting Sunday against the Titans.    

 

I don't think the coaches are helping him by not playing Porche and duv.  Can he will a team to win?  In yrs to come he will have to.

[Spen]

44 minutes ago, papasmurfbell said:

 

Were you watching that game?  That pick was atrocious and all him.  He had other close calls.  He keeps doing that week after week after week.

Yeah I watched the whole game. In color too. He played well, especially under the circumstances.  That "atrocious pick" was a shot with 14 seconds left and no time outs. It was either going to be a big play or a pick. It happens, they took a shot. 

[Spen]

1 hour ago, tsylvester said:

Should have had two picks, missed a few open guys deep sown field when he chose to throw short. Those deep passes change games, win games. Was he the reason they lost? No, not by him self, that is not what I am saying. You want me to grade out the linmen? i will, the receivers? i will, start a thread on them or any position.

But we are talking about Lamar and what he needs to do to improve.

Sell your narrative. Throw a deep pass in bad weather that gets picked off instead of the open short pass abs you'd be bitching about that. If he's not perfect, and does what you want, he sucks.

[papasmurfbell]

Its more than just 1 week.  This is really a season and a half of here are some issues that need to be dealt with.

 

[tsylvester]

40 minutes ago, Spen said:

Sell your narrative. Throw a deep pass in bad weather that gets picked off instead of the open short pass abs you'd be bitching about that. If he's not perfect, and does what you want, he sucks.

You have me confused with someone else Spen. The weather had nothing to do with his interception; it never should have been thrown based on the coverage. If you don't understand that, don't label me a hater, I'm trying to inform

[Spen]

22 minutes ago, tsylvester said:

You have me confused with someone else Spen. The weather had nothing to do with his interception; it never should have been thrown based on the coverage. If you don't understand that, don't label me a hater, I'm trying to inform

I didn't say the weather had anything to do with the interception. 

Thanks, I'll pass. No indictment of your knowledge but I've played and watched football probably as long or longer than anyone here. I'm not always right but I know the game. 

As for hater....eh......

Edited November 16, 2020 by Spen

[papasmurfbell]

I question any knowledge you have on the game. 

[Spen]

16 minutes ago, papasmurfbell said:

I question any knowledge you have on the game. 

Coming from an absolute fucking idiot like you - thank you.  That's the best compliment I will get all day. 

"Winning the super bowl is the worst thing that happened to this team - tell me about the rabbits, George."

[papasmurfbell]

 

I also find it funny how you make stuff up about what you believe I think.

 

 

 

[Spen]

47 minutes ago, papasmurfbell said:

 

I also find it funny how you make stuff up about what you believe I think.

 

 

 

Not that one,  that gem of a quote is all yours. Well minus the rabbit part. 

[papasmurfbell]

In that it has cemented Harbs it has hurt them.  You do remember the crap yrs afterwards.  And he has continuously shown to be inept in everything but special teams.

[Spen]

So that's an affirmative then,  great.