Clayton reports

[cravnravn]

Cam will remain as OC, and we might go after a QB coach.

 

[papasmurfbell]

And John is a great coach.

[cravnravn]

He is

[papasmurfbell]

Yeah nepetism is so great in running the team. It works well in DC too.

[cravnravn]

Come on Papa, thats comparing apples & oranges..JohnnyH has done a fine job here, better than Billick

[papasmurfbell]

Seems to me both have wasted a great deal of talent with bad coordinator use.

[Spen]

If you look at Harbaugh's record it certainly it certainly looks like he is a well above average coach. If you nit pick his coach speak and focus on his problems, which all coaches have, then perhaps you can fool yourself into thinking he needs to go or is not a good coach. I'll go by his accomplishments instead.

 

Papa put a picture of Harbaugh in your sig with "fire this arrogant bastard now" under it like you had for Billick. That always made me laugh.

[cravnravn]

He made one bad non call in 4 years..

 

Billick drafted Boller

[papasmurfbell]

BTW Ozzie drafts the players. Oh so keeping Cav was a great call? Then he kept the same offense under both Fassell and Newhiesel. I think it is just Brian's O. Also during that time bad time mang also happened. He lost control of the locker room. Unlike his claim he doesn't know QB's. Oh yeah he let Elvis stay on the field while taking a beating and wouldn't let Cunningham try to win a playoff game. I really could keep this up.

[cravnravn]

Theres nothing to keep up, you just listed a slew against Billick.

 

Harbs took a timeout into the offseason, thats his only flaw in 4 years.

[yagersports]

That's not a bad idea, Joe's best year occurred when he had a QB coach and Cam just focused on OC. A buffer between Cam and Joe is a good alternative between firing Cam and doing nothing. That seems fair.

[papasmurfbell]

Theres nothing to keep up, you just listed a slew against Billick.

 

Harbs took a timeout into the offseason, thats his only flaw in 4 years.

 

 

So Not going for the TD in Tenn when he was 2 scores down was smart. I can't remember were you one of the people who said he should not have gone for the onside that game? I think it was the right move but basically everyone else here said it was wrong. If you said it was wrong in Sept have you since changed you mind?

There are many other crazy mistakes.

[SpearSrai]

 

 

So Not going for the TD in Tenn when he was 2 scores down was smart. I can't remember were you one of the people who said he should not have gone for the onside that game? I think it was the right move but basically everyone else here said it was wrong. If you said it was wrong in Sept have you since changed you mind?

There are many other crazy mistakes.

 

Or how about the AWFUL challenge at the end of the Seattle game this year that cost us a vital timeout and essentially ended the game (when we had 2 timeouts and the 2-minute warning left, down by 5 points). One of the worst challenges in the history of professional sports. Should have been fired immediately as soon as that flag was thrown, and forced to leave the sideline before the clock got to :00.

 

For real.

 

(Not for real. It was right to let him finish the game, but he still should have been fired immediately after the game.)

[vmax]

Harbaugh is a great HC. Great.

He's proven it to me and I want nobody else.

 

There's only 2 HC's that I like over John and they are both coaching in the Super Bowl.

[SpearSrai]

*Ray Lewis is a great coach, Ozzie is a great GM.

 

How many millionaires have these two guys made?

 

John isn't even the best head coach from his own family in the NFL.

[yagersports]

This conversation is ridiculous. Harbaugh has accomplished what no other coach has accomplished and we just went to the freakin championship game. There's not that many guys that can do that. People make mistakes, Harbaugh doesn't make alot of them, his record backs that up. The seattle game didn't mean squat. Everyone has bad games, even the great Belicheck or anyone else you want to put out there.

 

Harbaugh is our guy and will be our guy for a long time. He makes good decisions and gets players to believe in a philosophy that is proven to work.

[SpearSrai]

The Seattle loss meant we played the AFC championship game in Foxboro.

 

Not ridiculous at all. Ray Lewis has turned many mediocre coaches into geniuses just like QB's like Elway turned Shanahan into a genius and Moss made Billick, Culpepper, Cassel,etc. look like offensive prodigies.

 

Newsome loads this team with some of the best talent every year and it underachieves. This is a Super Bowl team... you be happy with AFC champipnship losses.

[Spen]

Could he be better? Maybe. Does his record warrant a replacement? No way.

 

If we got rid of him I wonder how long it would take for him to get a new job. Minutes? If you look at his accomplishments hes done a great job.

[SpearSrai]

Could he be better? Maybe. Does his record warrant a replacement? No way.

 

If we got rid of him I wonder how long it would take for him to get a new job. Minutes? If you look at his accomplishments hes done a great job.

 

And that's why Andy Reid is still in Philly - even if they also underachieve on an annual basis.

 

Doesn't mean I have to be excited with the idea. When you see teams like New England, Pittsburgh, and New York going to multiple super bowls when we've had a stacked roster for 10 years... and a few coaching adjustments here or there make the little differences in close games... just because Harbaugh took over a roster with 4 potential hall of famers on defense, I'm not gonna pretend I'm impressed any more than I'll act like flacco making the playoffs all four years was because of him. I may be a homer, but I'm a realistic homer.

[vmax]

Spear...Tomlin had a stacked roster,LeBeau and Rthsslxxssbrrgrrr. Bellicheat has Brady...the Giants have Manning. Bellicheat and Rooster Coughlan are superior X's and O's HC's compared to Harbaugh...but John has done a great job organizing and running this Ravens train. His drive and focus has kept everybody on the same winning page.He represents us well. He's intense, demanding and old school.

 

The Ravens for the most part have been stacked like you say...but mainly on defense. They were lucky to get to the Super Bowl with Dilfer. Only the greatest single season defense made that possible....you know that.Then came Grbaccccc, Redman, Blake, Wright, Boller...you can't get to a Super Bowl with QB's like that.

An ageing Steve McNair????maybe.

There's always been weak spots on the Ravens, wether it's the QB's, receivers, secondary and O line issues. .. but in general, good coaching has led to players stepping up and over achieving.

 

Harbaugh also took over a roster with a rookie QB, RB and tackles...new OC and system...Frank Walker, Washington and Ivy in the secondary...nobody saw an AFC title game comming much less a trip to the Super Bowl.

 

Look...I feel your frustration too. I thought they should have gone all the way this year. It has really sucked to have one of the best defenses in the NFL for 10+ years and only 1 Super Bowl team. It does feel like a waste. Especially watching a ton of pathetic offensive performances over the years.

Some of Billicks teams under achieved. Harbaughs teams have over achieved. John is not the problem.

[SpearSrai]

Just like Tomlin had LaBeau, remember that Harbaugh had Rex as assistant HC that first year - and it was the defense that won us those two playoff games against Miami (wildcat who?) and Tennessee (goal line forced fumble by Leonhard).

 

Harbaugh is above average for WHAT HE'S ASKED TO DO, don't get me wrong. But he's a manager who will always be limited by his coordinators, where other coaches (Belichick, Payton, JIM Harbaugh, Rex - say what you will, the guy can build a defense, etc) can take over a side of the ball and improve upon it if necessary. John's thing is supposed to be ST... Explain that one to me.

 

Look what the other Harbaugh did his first year compared to what our Harbaugh did his first year. The 49ers, arguably, had a better season than any Ravens season under John. Look what a coach like Jim did for a guy like Alex Smith who was considered an all-time-bust. Weaker division? Okay, but they still beat the Bengals, Steelers, Eagles, Lions, and Giants nearly twice.

 

You think the 49ers don't have a more promising future under Jim than us under John? I say it's no contest.

 

I'm not saying fire John. Of course he's good, for what he does. He's fiery. But we're almost handicapped by his limitations.

 

 

[vmax]

Payton had Gregg Williams and Brees to get his Super Bowl. He was the losing OC to the Ravens in their Super Bowl. I don't think he's better than John....about the same level.

Rex definatley isn't. He shouldn't be a HC.

 

I think Jim should get coach of the year. He deserves it.

Listening to Jim was like listening to John. He said the same things.

If you look at both of them, they are a carbon copy of philosophies on how to win games:

Be the most physical team.

Run the ball. Play great defense (both D's loaded with talent).

Win field position. Avoid turnovers.

Make turnovers. Attack.

Win time of possession.

They both preach "Get Better" at every press conference.

 

It's spooky. Probably from the old man. Very sound philosophies.

 

 

Future? Well, both HC's have a few great teams they have to face in the playoffs every year. I see the 49'ers as a playoff team for a good while. Same for the Ravens but it will never be easy playing in the North.

 

Now...let's watch how both do. I think Jim, because of his abrasive and confrontational personality, will lose his team before John does. People do complain about his ego.

We'll see.

[reddog271]

are we really doubt Harbs? now? 2 Conference championships in his first 4 years as a coach.. how is that waisting talent?

[SpearSrai]

We could debate all day about the Harbaughs and which coaches owe what to who... I just think we'll see once Ozzie and Ray and Ed retire just how much of the team they've been carrying on their back.

 

And I think almost anyone would take Jim over John going forward. Jim turned a franchise around in one season and made Alex Smith look like he belonged in the NFL... John stepped into a made situation and has made terrible blunders along the way. Some of his challenges boggle the mind, and his timeout awareness is awful.

 

When the team is saying there was confusion at the end of the game last week and he's sitting on a timeout... a head coach at this level just has to know what to do there. And it doesn't surprise me as much as it should that he would get confused in a big spot like that. That's not a good thing, when you have guys like Belichick on the other side of the field.

[SpearSrai]

are we really doubt Harbs? now? 2 Conference championships in his first 4 years as a coach.. how is that waisting talent?

 

Rex Ryan did that in his first two seasons. With fewer than 4 hall of famers on defense. Losing in the AFC championship twice in four years is an accomplishment to you?