'Our hearts are broken today'

[oldcrow]

 

We dont fucking need Republican adds in this topic..

 

there's no way this a repubican add? just doesn't make sense in that way? that would be plain silly.

[cravnravn]

Anybody think video games have something to do with these senseless massacres?

 

And all this shit with Adhd, aspergers, bi-polar ism, we didnt have this crap growing up.

[cravnravn]

 

there's no way this a repubican add? just doesn't make sense in that way? that would be plain silly.

 

 

I dont know Jen, the Repub fans are still sour.

[oldcrow]

Anybody think video games have something to do with these senseless massacres?

 

And all this shit with Adhd, aspergers, bi-polar ism, we didnt have this crap growing up.

 

it's the fucking corn syrup i tell ya and all the dyes

 

yellow no.5

red no. 40

blue no. 3

 

perhaps a Molotov cocktail the corn syrup creating the diabetes enhancing the ADDHD combining with the antiidote of Ritlin and zoloft shakin in a dysfunctional society shaker

KABOOM!!!

[oldcrow]

 

 

I dont know Jen, the Repub fans are still sour.

yeh i know not sure is papa one? what he posted isn't all lies, all of our presidents have killed innocent civilians.

sad but true

[cravnravn]

Whats really amazing I had my kids young in life, all my kids are over the age of 22, my best friend, over 50 choose to start his family later in life he has 2 under 10 years of age, both his kids were great kids, their teacher calls him and says the 8 year old sons mind wanders during class and needs to be put on ritlin, his daughters teacher called and said the exact same thing..He has 2 kids now on Ritalin, and before I moved south spent time with them, and they are fucking ZOMBIES, because of the Ritalin..Its a shame..If I got a call from a teacher saying they didnt pay attention..I say "A chip off the old block"

 

Maybe DC can shed some light on this since hes a teacher..Is that the easy way out for teachers DC? Tell the parents your kid needs to see a Dr because their attention span is not there in class?

 

Dc, this is not a shot at the teaching profession, it is a question..

Edited December 16, 2012 by cravnravn

[oldcrow]

the teachers i know would say yes. they didn't want it to happen but it did because of other teachers or school officials, but they make it clear that some teachers push for meds because it gives them more time for all the students and not so much distraction by one, . I also heard that it seems the parents just drop their kids off to be "babysitted" after the parents do not give the kids a proper diet so they actually are bouncing off the walls. I had one friend tell me she feeds them some Twizzlers before they are picked up by the parents. the red dye and sugar jacks them up so the parents get to see what the kids are like instead of out of sight outa mind. just bad parents in many aspects. you go to grocery today, people have carts full of processed boxed microwaveable bullshit.

[cravnravn]

Lets bring back recess

[dc.]

I don't have enough experience with such situations to really comment, Crav. But I think more than just the teachers see it as an easy way out - the parents, the schools, everyone does. I think everyone is too quick to call childhood a problem instead of childhood. I also think that teachers and parents, and even students, don't like to be "different" in the sense that they don't like to be given the "alternatives" - it's hard work for teachers to make different styles of lesson, it can cost parents more money or require extra involvement to be in the right programs or help students in the right way, it's lots of resources for the school. If a pill can hypothetically just remove the issue, I'm sure it's an appealing option.

 

But again - I don't have that much experience with all of that. I teach high school, by the time students get to me many of those decisions are already made and I don't know how or why. We are largely on a need-to-know basis about students.

 

As an example (both "I" and the student are of course hypothetical) - imagine a very disorganized student: can't write down homework, can't keep a paper, can't take notes, never even has a pencil/pen in high school. I try to be proactive - tell mom and dad that little Johnny is struggling in those ways; it's not his intelligence, but he's not able to focus - even enough to have a pen. As the teacher, I have plenty to do and standing over little Johnny every second just isn't going to happen. Even meeting with him is getting to be a hassle - we waste five minutes after class every day just to have him say he didn't remember his book, again. Most of his other teachers are either at that point or just think he's lazy (lazy teachers like to label kids lazy; it's easy). Mom and dad want to write this off as being a 15 year old - which is fair enough - but there are actions that could be taken to help, right? But no, he's smart and just disorganized - it will be okay. Well, not if he fails every class because he never has notes, a book, homework, notes or classwork. So - what's the easiest path for all?

 

Also - I agree. Bring back recess.

 

 

As another add-on -- while I certainly think this conversation about identifying kids is worthwhile, I am not sure it perfectly fits the situation that started all this. Schools have huge programs about bullying, suicide prevention, drug use, etc... but on a daily basis any number of kids - dozens probably - could meet a few requirements to make me raise a red flag. Even my absolute best students have absolutely horrible days, weeks and even months. It's part of what makes the teenage years so fun (note some sarcasm) - hormones, mood swings, love, attachment, the end of the world! I don't think recess or the lack thereof plays a role in this. The most important thing I think as a teacher - and as a human - is to treat people as individuals. That's where we have to start. There is no one policy for all or one path for all - and that applies at home, at school, in friendships, in video games, in recess, on message boards, chat rooms, Twitter, homework, etc. We have to look at the totality of an individual, we have to talk to people. We have to treat people like people to know them, to help them.

[papasmurfbell]

 

We dont fucking need Republican adds in this topic..

 

I got this from a guy who is a libertarian. He hates both the GOP and democratic party like myself. If Romney were in he would be doing the same thing he agreed with Obama's use of drones.

[Spen]

Anybody think video games have something to do with these senseless massacres?

 

And all this shit with Adhd, aspergers, bi-polar ism, we didnt have this crap growing up.

 

 

I dont. Other countries play a lot of video games too and do not have these problems like we do. I really wouldn't be surprised if someone ill was inspired by video games but i don't think they affect the average person. Sick people can find inspiration in a lot of places.

[dc.]

I don't think video games have much to do with it. I do think a cultural change towards electronic babysitters and communication has had some effect - on all people and interactions.

[cravnravn]

Other countries dont have access to guns like the the US does

[BengalBilly]

Other countries dont have access to guns like the the US does

That's why we rule the world and they don't. We can shoot. We can rope and ride. Most of our countrymen enlist in the military or become commissioned officers.

 

Well. I guess not in this place... everybody looking for the free ride around here.

[dc.]

That's why we rule the world and they don't. We can shoot. We can rope and ride. Most of our countrymen enlist in the military or become commissioned officers.

Well. I guess not in this place... everybody looking for the free ride around here.

 

All bull. We rule the world not because our citizens own guns but because our government invests in weaponry far more than any other nation - and willingly uses that power more than any other nation. (And then we whine about a government deficit).

 

And not 'most' - not even half, not even 1/4 - of our "countrymen" join the armed forces, and certainly far fewer become officers. Especially compare that to nations with mandatory military service, which are many around the world.

 

In fact, it's rather silly. We have more guns but fewer people trained in how to use them.

 

But keep telling yourself myths and fantasies about the uniqueness of the United States. I believe the United States is great and perhaps the greatest country in the world - but not because of anything inherent in our people (in the sense that other people and cultures are equally fantastic). We are great because of the idea and principles behind our institutions and our people. It's sad to me that Americans so widely believe that we, almost as if we are 'race,' are special and better than the rest of the world. And even sadder to realize that we seem to want to keep the great ideas and principles behind our society a secret. I want other nations to have these principles and rejoice in seeing other nations embrace them. But many Americans continue to envision even the most advanced nations of Europe as the monarchical states that existed 200 years ago or the totalitarian states that existed 80 years ago, instead of acknowledging that they too have embraced so many of our great principles - and perhaps have found new great principles that matter too!

[Spen]

That's why we rule the world and they don't. We can shoot. We can rope and ride. Most of our countrymen enlist in the military or become commissioned officers.

 

Well. I guess not in this place... everybody looking for the free ride around here.

 

 

Well I guess you be on your way then, surely you wont want to keep coming here then....Its a shame because you add so much to the board. I mean its not like you are just desperately trying to get attention here lately.

[BengalBilly]

 

All bull. We rule the world not because our citizens own guns but because our government invests in weaponry far more than any other nation - and willingly uses that power more than any other nation. (And then we whine about a government deficit).

 

And not 'most' - not even half, not even 1/4 - of our "countrymen" join the armed forces, and certainly far fewer become officers. Especially compare that to nations with mandatory military service, which are many around the world.

 

In fact, it's rather silly. We have more guns but fewer people trained in how to use them.

 

But keep telling yourself myths and fantasies about the uniqueness of the United States. I believe the United States is great and perhaps the greatest country in the world - but not because of anything inherent in our people (in the sense that other people and cultures are equally fantastic). We are great because of the idea and principles behind our institutions and our people. It's sad to me that Americans so widely believe that we, almost as if we are 'race,' are special and better than the rest of the world. And even sadder to realize that we seem to want to keep the great ideas and principles behind our society a secret. I want other nations to have these principles and rejoice in seeing other nations embrace them. But many Americans continue to envision even the most advanced nations of Europe as the monarchical states that existed 200 years ago or the totalitarian states that existed 80 years ago, instead of acknowledging that they too have embraced so many of our great principles - and perhaps have found new great principles that matter too!

All bull huh? Half the stuff you typed was unrecognizable in the english language, but I get the drift of where your boat without a paddle is going.

 

As a Marine, let me ask you something man. Did you ever serve your country? Did you ever put your ass on the line for anything? Would you ever risk your very life for another.Personally I have my doubts.

 

Normally I would ride roughshod over comments like these but you're simply not worth my time. In fact you amuse me.

[BengalBilly]

 

 

Well I guess you be on your way then, surely you wont want to keep coming here then....Its a shame because you add so much to the board. I mean its not like you are just desperately trying to get attention here lately.

 

I'm not looking for anything here. This forum is just a place to hang from time to time.

 

Crav told me to fuck off. Why don't you grow a pair and tell me the same.

[dc.]

Billy... first, you've attacked me with this line of questioning before and we've sorted this out. You yell at me when you're angry about me "serving my country" because my opinion doesn't count if I haven't. (This by the way, is an ad hominem attack that avoids the issue and attacks the person, not the point). I respond and tell you that it depends on your definition of service. I acknowledge that I have not served in the military, but I am a teacher and I feel that I provide a service to this nation in many ways. You respond (or did last time and verified earlier in this thread) that your mother was a teacher and that you respect that as service. Maybe I'll go find the last discussion where this occurred - it was a few years ago now.

 

Ok. So, now that that's out of the way...

 

What part of my post was incorrect?

 

You said at least half of our country serves in the military. That is false. Per this article, about 1% of US citizens are presently in the military and less than 50% even claim to have a family member who has ever served. A higher number of seniors have family who have served, of course, because of the wars of their time.

 

I said that not only is that statement false, but that other countries have a great claim to the responsibility of service because they actually require military service (see Austria, Russia, China, Israel, Serbia, Denmark, Egypt, Greece, South Korea, Turkey, Ukraine, Philippines ... just as a start).

 

So, two statements above.

[Spen]

 

I'm not looking for anything here. This forum is just a place to hang from time to time.

 

Crav told me to fuck off. Why don't you grow a pair and tell me the same.

 

Because I really do think you are acting like an idiot, I am not joking around about that. If I was I might tell you to fuck off, but you're not being funny and you're certainly not being intelligent. The only funny (and sad) thing about you is how much of a fit you throw and how insulting you become whenever anyone disagrees with you in the least. So I guess its kind of funny to see an old man throw fits, but beyond that its just boring and sad.

[RavenMad]

First and foremost this is a tragedy and all our thoughts and prayers should be with the families that lost a child/brother/sister/mother/father etc.

 

I'm not American but I can't believe your forefathers envisaged this when they wrote the 2nd amendment that the gun advocates are hiding behind.

 

Where I live, it seems the only people who have guns are law enforcement and bad people. Shootings are very rare. Murders still happen more than we would like but I have yet to have the experience of a massacre such as what has just happened in Colorado. We probably still have the same % of loonies in our country as you do but they don't have access to the guns so they can't kill on the same level.

[OutsideRzAcE]

First and foremost this is a tragedy and all our thoughts and prayers should be with the families that lost a child/brother/sister/mother/father etc.

 

I'm not American but I can't believe your forefathers envisaged this when they wrote the 2nd amendment that the gun advocates are hiding behind.

 

You are right, because when this constitution and amendments were written they had muskets that could fire 1 round a minute, not advanced semi automatic pistols and rifles that can spray 100's of rounds in that same time. As DC pointed out, they also had to worry about invasions from foreign countries and governments (War of 1812 for example).

 

There are far too many guns in this country. I was watching a news show yesterday morning and this black friday set a record as far as gun sales. The FBI reported over 150 Thousand background checks on that day alone (up almost 60K from 2008) and that represents just gun sales through avenues that require a background check. You do not need one for a private sale at a gun show or from citizen to citizen. In the past few months I can think of several tragic gun accidents, nevermind the day to day gun violence that happens on street corners of every major city.

 

Man shoots and kills son after responding to neighbors call for help

http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story/Man-shoots-own-son-responding-to-neighbors-call/kIAFS0zoQEOuBM7ZlYy2Fw.cspx

 

Man shoots and kills son while purchasing gun

http://news.yahoo.com/father-fatally-shoots-son-outside-pennsylvania-gun-store-022116082.html

 

Man shoots and 8 year old girl after mistaking her for a skunk

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/21/costumed-girl-shot-after-being-mistaken-for-skunk-outside-western-pa-party/

 

Man shoots up car full of unarmed teenagers, killing one after complaining of loud music

http://www.theskanner.com/article/Florida-Man-Shoots-at-Car-of-Unarmed-Teens-Killing-One-2012-11-28

 

Seriously, this is daily life in the US and it's a problem that is getting worse. A lot of these stories don't even register a blip on most people's radars but any one of them would be a national incident in other countries. After Aurora after the temple in Wisconson after the mall in Oregon, after Gabby Gifford and after all these incidents i've listed and countless others I don't even know about, Washington cannot put this on the back burner any longer.

[cravnravn]

WE think we our the greatest country, but if you travel outside the country, WE are not very well liked. Europeans dont like our policies, they dont like that we stick our nose into middle east affairs and then drag them into it

[RavenMad]

Crav, to be honest that isn't really all of it. There are a multitude of reasons why they don't like Americans and a lot of them are to do with the American stereotype of being loud and obnoxious even though that isn't a proper reflection of you guys. I would even venture that some of it is jealousy.

 

For everything that you have got wrong (eg.guns) there is a lot more you have got right and I guess some of these nations and their people would love to have some of the freedoms and luxuries that you are afforded. I sure would love your gas/diesel prices and there are many other examples of American greatness.

 

I think what puts a lot of people off is being reminded of your country's greatness at every turn.

 

If I may use the NFL as an example. While the Patriots were winning all those Superbowls and going undefeated etc. you either loved them or hated them. The media was constantly reminding us of how great the Patriots were etc. In other words they were throwing it in our faces 24/7. That is kind of how the rest of the world sees America as a whole. You are the Patriots and the rest of us are the 31 other NFL teams and their fans trying to be the best and we hate you for being the top.

 

Ok, it's not quite as simple as that but hopefully you catch my drift.

 

That said, I have never met an American I didn't like and I would hope they would say the same about me.

[RavenMad]

Murders still happen more than we would like but I have yet to have the experience of a massacre such as what has just happened in Colorado.

 

I did mean Connecticut here but I was also thinking of Columbine again as I was typing my message which only emphasises my point even further.