I'm Scared

[cravnravn]

I want Victor Cruz!!!!!! I want to learn that Salsa

[oldcrow]

Three team swap. The Latinos trade Victor Cruz to the Blacks who trade OJ Simpson to the Whites who trade George Zimmerman and Mitt Romney to the Latinos.

DAGGONE DEE . YOU'RE GOOD.

[oldcrow]

whitey wants Melissa Harris -Perry if we have to take OJ

 

Paula Dean is on the "block"

[deeshopper]

whitey wants Melissa Harris -Perry if we have to take OJ

 

Paula Dean is on the "block"

 

Not really, she's 100% white. But you do get Sammy Soza who is also now 100% white.

 

The Blacks will trade Melissa Harris-Perry to the Whites for Pete Wentz and the Kardashian girls who keep trying to sneak onto the Blacks' team.

[cravnravn]

I ll take Halle & Pam Grier, just for half an hour

[oldcrow]

Working hard on getting Cornel West

 

so, if you people lol really want the Kardashians please take them, you can have Bruce Jenner too he is a good runner

[cravnravn]

If he ran, he would split wide open as tight as his face has become..

[deeshopper]

I ll take Halle & Pam Grier, just for half an hour

 

That's all the time you'll need, huh? :fishin:

[cravnravn]

Thats it, Im not greedy

[oldcrow]

Thats it, Im not greedy

how are you not greedy? you asked for two not just one. LOL

 

cravn you get one and Nancy Grace

[Robjr83]

I ll take Halle & Pam Grier, just for half an hour

 

 

What are you going to do with the other 25 minutes?

[dc.]

Best article I have read on the Martin issue so far:

 

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/closeread/2013/07/what-should-trayvon-martin-have-done.html

 

"What Should Trayvon Have Done?"

 

I guess that's the question that still bothers me. Again, I don't know what quite to think of Zimmerman - I just know that Martin was put in a very hard situation and no one has offered the best advice.

 

From the article, summarized (the article takes common responses to the question and responds):

 

-- Run home? But he was doing nothing wrong. Isn't that acknowledging that he shouldn't have been there? That the creepy guy following him wins? Does running even solve the problem or make Zimmerman more suspicious, pursue faster, lead to another encounter?

-- Run / walk also presents its own issue... the author points out that on the 911 call and after, Zimmerman criticizes Martin for walking really slowly (which is suspicious) and then for walking too fast/jogging when noticed (which is also suspicious). So, per another commenter, at what speed exactly should we all walk to not be suspicious, especially if you're black?

-- Politely waited to talk to Mr. Zimmerman and prove his case? That makes sense, only because we know now that Zimmerman was "just Zimmerman." We also aren't 100% sure that the outcome would have been any different - we still don't know that Zimmerman was in a good mindset. But why does Martin have to slow down and apologize for being where he is?

 

The author ultimately makes the comparison to how we blame all victims - why were you there? why were you out when it was dark? why didn't you run? why were you alone?

 

Again, forget the trial and verdict - I mostly believe even that it was Zimmerman screaming for help on the tape - but what's the way to avoid this in the future?

[papasmurfbell]

This talks about a psychical examination, which Zimmerman had. That's why they photographed his injuries.

They took pics. He was not taken to the hospital. He went to his own doctor the next day. Since the local hospital couldn't get a look at him how bad were his injuries really?

[Robjr83]

Should GZ have let him beat him more before he shot him?

[papasmurfbell]

Working hard on getting Cornel West

 

so, if you people lol really want the Kardashians please take them, you can have Bruce Jenner too he is a good runner

I have a lot of respect for Cornal West.

 

Best article I have read on the Martin issue so far:

 

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/closeread/2013/07/what-should-trayvon-martin-have-done.html

 

"What Should Trayvon Have Done?"

 

 

Exactly. He walks to slow he is doing something wrong. He walks away he is trying to evade. He is wearing his hood so I guess he should be naked while it rains.

 

Should GZ have let him beat him more before he shot him?

He shouldn't have gotten out of his SUV.

[dc.]

Robjr, I am talking about before the fight. How do we stop this from happening again? How do you respond if you're in Martin's shoes?

 

As Papa said above, walk too slow and you're suspicious, but walk too fast and you're running.

 

But it's worse, turn around to engage (even in a kind, friendly way) and what do you get? We don't know. First, we know that you're acknowledging that someone's idea that you don't belong there is valid. That's a nice feeling. But second, maybe you get a load of grief and anger from an overzealous neighborhood watchman who makes you wait there until police come to verify... or maybe you get beaten to a pulp because it turns out it wasn't a neighborhood watchman, it was a mugger... or maybe you just get hounded by some guy who's decided that he doesn't like the way you look or the way you walk, which escalates into a fight when he says, "you f'n punks always have an excuse."

 

All hypothetical. But all so easy to imagine happening. And in fact we're still not sure that to some extent that's not what happened. I'm not trying to put Zimmerman on trial here again, I'm just saying that his overzealous actions in the first place created a lose-lose for everyone.

[Robjr83]

This case would have been a lot easier if the neighborhood had cameras, or an I witness saw the entire event in complete clarity. According to GZ (yes its his statement so who knows if its correct) TM wasn't just walking home, he was checking cars/homes. There had been break ins not to mention had stolen jewelry in his locker.

[papasmurfbell]

Is there any evidence of TM ever burglarizing any house in that community? He had been staying ther on and off for 2 yrs. He had plenty of time to do it. I know I look at houses or landscaping of places that interests me. I have never broken into one.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge7i60GuNRg

Just heard about this.

[Robjr83]

I don't know... have you broken into any homes? I don't know you, you don't know me, but if your looking into my home or car we will have words.

[Spen]

I don't know... have you broken into any homes? I don't know you, you don't know me, but if your looking into my home or car we will have words.

 

Understandable. What about if you were walking down the street doing nothing and someone is obviously following you? Any words then?

[papasmurfbell]

Nop enever have. I have broken into my own but never anyone elses. If I or anyone else is walking down the sidewalk we are allowed to look at houses or cars. Just last night I noticed this car full of so much trash. I thought it looked like crap. I guess that means I was trying to steal it then.

[deeshopper]

I look into houses as I'm walking by all the time. Where do you leave, rob. I wanna make sure I don't do it in your neighborhood.

[Robjr83]

There's a difference between looking (a passive glance) and casing. IMO TM was casing houses/cars. I work in Brooklyn Dee. My homes in Pasadena, its a nice neighborhood I guess I'm just not a trusting person.

 

@ spen.. depends on what doing nothing meant. If I did nothing and somebody was creepily following me then I get your point, but I don't believe things transpired like that.

[Spen]

Rojr - Zimmerman had just shot a man and admitted to it. They had every reason to do every and any reasonable search/seizure/test to ensure the shooting was justified. A warrant would have been easy to obtain. There's also little harm in holding the guy overnight, just in case. Right? I mean, you shot a guy! I think the other travesty, as I said before, is in that while all this was going on - no one thought to say maybe this kid lives nearby. It took a while to figure out who Trayvon was. To me, that says they immediately believed his "the guy was a dangerous intruder" even though it wasn't true.

 

Crav - the prosecutor has to prove he killed someone. That was easy. He admitted it. My argument is that if you admit to shooting someone, shouldn't it be on YOU to prove that it was justified? According to current law in Florida (and most other states), you don't. You just have to say it justified and the police/prosecutor have to prove otherwise. One bruise on your nose and no eye witnesses... easy enough to say "self defense, prove it wasn't!"

 

So, did the prosecution have to prove it was manslaughter? Sure. And they did, in my mind, the moment Zimmerman said "Sure, I shot him." But why do WE have to prove that you were justified? At the least, the standard of proof should be different for self defense, in my mind.

 

That's going to lead to frustrating cases like this but I will always think the burden of proof should be on the prosecution. It shouldn't be easy to convict someone of a serious crime, sometimes at the cost of a verdict people do not expect or agree with.

In this case I agree with the verdict. I do not like it, but to me the evidence given in the trial and the goofy (and unevenly applied it seems) stand your ground law made a not guilty verdict the correct one.

 

Now I do think Zimmerman was being an ass and overstepping his boundary and because of that someone is dead. And that shouldn't have happened and he walks away scot free. Its not right and I feel bad about that and the entire series of events. If I am walking home and an someone in an unmarked car is following me I would be scared and angry. Who knows what would happen, but I probably wouldn't ignore them and slowly walk home. I don't think anyone who says that's what he should have done would either.

 

If I understand that law correctly I understand that Trayvon, if he had a gun, could have legally shot Zimmerman when Zimmerman got out of the car and began pursuing him. If that would have happened would Trayvon been allowed to go home that night? Would the same people defending Zimmerman using that law as their reason feel the same way then?

[papasmurfbell]

So you have what proof of him casing houses?

 

Why was Zimmerman kicked out of school because he was considered a danger?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/14/george-zimmerman-law-school_n_3595945.html