Ray rice cut

[cravnravn]

Crav, he was cut before the indefinite suspension.

 

IMO I feel the NFL notified the Ravens of their intension of suspension, and put the ball in the Ravens court.

[ForceEight]

Fair enough...that definitely makes sense.

[RavenMad]

 

I hope you are right Mad Man, just got this gut feeling that the topic will be front and center rather then the play on the field.

 

I know what you are saying and if it was on any other network but the NFL's own network I would agree but I think the NFL wants to get as far away from this topic as quickly as possible. They will have their guys on red alert to get off the subject early and move on.

[dc.]

 

No I dont think the Ravens acted hastily in cutting Rice, IMO, The NFL said they were going to suspend him indefinitely, as a business the Ravens felt then why keep him on the payroll. I think they made the only decision that was available to them.

Does a suspended players salary count against the cap? In many leagues it doesn't. So wouldn't the better financial move have been to keep him (not counting the press and marketing side of course).

 

I think it's a fine move even though I'm sure the motive is more press than anything else. Though I do wonder why the league let's every other player in a fight or with a DUI play and why we all don't priest the whole gang league for condoning violence of all kinds

[tsylvester]

initially he and his wife lied and said she started it and it wasn't that bad then you see the video and it's a while different story. He started it before they even got on the elevator when he spit on her.

 

 

Did she lie? She may have "started" the arguement that lead to this entire thing. We see in the video before they get on that they are already having issues, for what ever reason. Then when they get on, she says something, we don't know what, she slaps at him but he slaps her first. Then she attempts to hit when he decks her, causing her o hit her hea on the rail.

 

This entire thing is what they both could hae and likely did tell to the NFL and to the Ravens. Since Ray's defense team had the tape, there is no reason, after he took the plea and the case closed, for the team and the league, NOT to look at the tape before sentencing Ray to two games just to see that he was telling the truth and how bad it will look WHEN the tape COMES OUT!

 

So either they did see it and tried to sweep it under the rug, or did not even attempt to see, taking him at his word.

 

If the later and they are just reacting now based on the outcry, then the union has to step in and stop the year long suspension. There is no new evidence since they knew what was on the tape, and even under the new rules, this is his first offense and should only be out 6 games.

 

The only area of new evidence I can see is if both Ray and Jenay lied, telling a completely different story than was on the tape, thus the tape now being new, correct evidence and his lie, combined with the tape, is what triggered the indefinate suspension.

 

Since neither the league nor Ravens are talking, we may never know.

[papasmurfbell]

They arent above the law

 

And yes, it is true about advertising, which is why none of this matters. If public perception on advertiser support weren't an issue the NFL pretty much wouldn't care. This whole thing is PR, that's why I don't understand the blind outrage that no one really cares about unless they see it.

I can show you countless cases of criminal activity and the cops are left alone.

 

 

Can the Front Office seek repayment of some of the bonuses? Like how the Falcons went after Vick when they had to cut him?

No. Vick lied before his contract was paid out. Rice already had his contract.

 

 

Thanks Papa, I look really stupid now.

NP.

 

 

That's real bush league to use a situation like this to prove you're right, papa. My original statements were made purely on Ray Rice as a player, not as a human. No one could have seen this coming. Sorry, lost some respect there from me. Of course you always have to be right so it doesn't surprise me.

He fell off badly last yr. Why would he be in the HOF with diminishing talent?

 

 

Papa... Do you keep a Google account with every post you want to bring up in the future?

No just a memory like an elephant. If people talk S they shouldn't be shocked to see their words thrown back in theri face. Hell you did it on Sunday with the O's to me.

 

 

^^^^^^^ i'm more mad about the cap hit than them Cutting Ray Rice

That is why I thought they were going to ride it out.

 

 

 

Maybe there is a way out of it? I dont know

No. They have to live with a lack of talent in 2015.

 

 

I'm of the opinion that the league, the Ravens, and Rice all knew about that video and had seen it, and leaked it to TMZ this week to make up for their suspension guffaws and the general distaste of all the aforementioned by women and anti-DV folks that was going to come to a head in Week 3 when Rice came back.

 

I refuse to believe that any of them hadn't yet seen it.

No the league was totally blindsided. The team and the NFL look like total asses. ESPN is castigating them. That does not happen to NFL partners.

 

 

 

 

If we look closely at things, listen carefully, we can always find the truth hidden in the darkness. There is no way, as many on ESPN have said and I agree, that the NFL, with all its connections in law enforcement, nor the Ravens, with Biscutts connection as a BILLIONair...... did not see the video, none.

 

Jameson Winsley reported, on ESPN this afternoon that he reached out to the organization early in the day, before they cut him, and ask if there were any plans to make a move on Rice since the video had come out. Their response was no, no changes...... Only after they gauged the respone not just by the public, but by many, many NFL players, current, who wanted Rice out of the league, did they make the move.

 

This tells us plain & simple, they all, the NFL, Ray, his wife (perhaps coerced by the millions) and the Ravens tried to cover this up.

 

If they did, (it will eventually come out) this tells us they all must be stupid to think the video would not come out. Maybe they thought it had been destroyed since that casino was closed down, who knows. Either way, just having Harbs hold a five minute or less press conference and say nothing, leaves me feeling a little sick about this team, this organization.

 

Iv'e said it before, Goody is going to chase me away from the NFL, me, a 48 year old man who has watched, studied, loved the game all my life. What I have found over the years, is that my opinion is largely, not alone.

Harbs looked like a total ass in that presser last night. He is such a good liar.

 

 

Am I the only one who thinks the Ravens overreacted by cutting Rice? They should have hunkered down and weathered the storm like they have so far. Of course I understand they have a larger corporate image to protect and I'm in no way saying he DESERVED to have the Ravens' support, but unless he lied to them when this all initially came out then I'm not sure exactly what changed. He made a huge mistake, true, but it was one mistake. He has been a good guy in the community and on the team for years. I would have agreed with a longer team imposed suspension but they should have given him a chance to rebuild and atone for his mistake.

 

I also don't understand most of the reaction i'm seeing from the media. I've seen many people saying he should be banned for life. Seriously? His actions were bad but banned for life bad?

I thought they were going to do that route.

[papasmurfbell]

@KVanValkenburg: Let's pretend for a sec the Ravens didn't want to buy this video for six figures. That decision was worth, what, $40 million in bad PR?

 

Good point here.

Very good point.

 

 

@BlogAndTackle: The fact Ravens put Harbaugh out alone tonight to face media horde is interesting. Silence of decision-makers (so far) is deafening.

Very true.

 

 

 

I don't think the Ravens overreacted.

 

I don't think he should be banned for life either. I think he will get a shot again. If he doesn't I think its more to do with his age and position than the video.

With a bad 2013 season and a yr long susp I think he has played his last game. Also I heard on ESPN that DV groups were about to mount up against the league and Ravens. The question is can the be bought off like PETA was several yrs ago.

 

 

Today probably.

 

 

 

 

Crav, the game is on NFL Network so my guess is they address it once early on and then sweep it under the rug like Goodell has tried/is trying to do. No way the shield wants this to be the focus of the Thursday night game.

That was last yr. CBS has it now. I believe Jim Nantz and Phil Simms do those games.

 

 

Does a suspended players salary count against the cap? In many leagues it doesn't. So wouldn't the better financial move have been to keep him (not counting the press and marketing side of course).

 

I think it's a fine move even though I'm sure the motive is more press than anything else. Though I do wonder why the league let's every other player in a fight or with a DUI play and why we all don't priest the whole gang league for condoning violence of all kinds

His game check no but a part of the bonuses do.

[cravnravn]

 

His game check no but a part of the bonuses do.

 

 

Doesnt "Conduct Detrimental to the league/team" come into play here? and if it does, isnt that a legal loophole for them to void the contract?

 

Can the ravens go after Rice for the bonus money already paid?

[papasmurfbell]

 

 

Doesnt "Conduct Detrimental to the league/team" come into play here? and if it does, isnt that a legal loophole for them to void the contract?

 

Can the ravens go after Rice for the bonus money already paid?

 

 

http://russellstreetreport.com/cap-ramifications-of-ray-rices-legal-issues/

The term “morality clause” has become a major talking point – but without any real context.

The morality clause, contained in Paragraph 11 of the standard NFL contract, simply allows teams to release players for “skill, performance and conduct”. The morality clause, however, does not allow a team to recoup any Bonus money paid (much less his entire bonus).

Of course, the team and, more importantly, the Commissioner do have the ability to suspend a player. If a player is suspended, the team does get a rebate – in cash and Cap – in the amount of the total of the game checks lost by the player during the suspension. Obviously, assuming any suspension for Rice would only be for a couple of games at most, that’s not likely to be a major amount in this situation.

What the CBA does allow is for the team to recoup a portion (notice – a “portion”) of a player’s bonus money when the player commits a “forfeitable breach” by being unavailable to play for his team. Under Article 4, Section 9 of the CBA, unavailability basically comes down to a player retiring early, a holdout, a suspension or incarceration.

However, simply being released by his team before being arrested for a crime does not make a player “unavailable” pursuant to the terms of the CBA. So, the player must be on the team’s roster if and when the player is actually unable to perform due to a “forfeitable breach”.

That obviously shoots down the theory of using the “morality clause”.

 

[cravnravn]

 

 

What the CBA does allow is for the team to recoup a portion (notice – a “portion”) of a player’s bonus money when the player commits a “forfeitable breach” by being unavailable to play for his team. Under Article 4, Section 9 of the CBA, unavailability basically comes down to a player retiring early, a holdout, a suspension or incarceration.

 

So we fit that category

[papasmurfbell]

Yeah but they can't get it all back.

[papasmurfbell]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/08/no-refuge-for-ray-rice-to-be-found-north-of-border-cfl-to-honor-nfl-suspension/

No refuge for Ray Rice to be found north of border, CFL to honor NFL suspension

Former Baltimore Ravens running back Ray Rice will not be able to move north of the border to play in Canada while suspended from the National Football League.

According to the Canadian Press, Canadian Football League commissioner Mark Cohon released a statement Monday saying they would honor the suspension of Rice handed down by the NFL after video of Rice’s domestic violence incident became public. Per the report, the league has sent direction to its teams that Rice will not be allowed to sign with any of the league’s nine teams.

Suspended NFL players have been able to play in the CFL before. Running back Ricky Williams played a season with the Toronto Argonauts after being suspended for the entire 2006 season.

However, Cohon apparently invoked a clause that allowed him to make Rice ineligible to play in the CFL.

 

[thundercleetz]

Very good point.

 

 

Very true.

 

 

With a bad 2013 season and a yr long susp I think he has played his last game. Also I heard on ESPN that DV groups were about to mount up against the league and Ravens. The question is can the be bought off like PETA was several yrs ago.

 

 

 

 

Today probably.

 

 

 

That was last yr. CBS has it now. I believe Jim Nantz and Phil Simms do those games.

 

 

His game check no but a part of the bonuses do.

Responding to my quote only, if that's the point you wanted to make there's a time and place for that debate on Ray Rice's worth (that was the original argument). But you know damn well that's not was not your intention pulling a quote that old and using a situation like this to justify your original argument. Once again extremely bush league.

[papasmurfbell]

No holds bared.

[Jungletiger]

I can show you countless cases of criminal activity and the cops are left alone.

 

 

 

As a follower of cop block and police the police, I am sure you can show me tons of examples.

[Spen]

 

NP.

 

Is it ok if I still post here? Feeling pretty down about my foolishness. Edited September 9, 2014 by Spen

[tsylvester]

So, the Ravens say what Rice described to them back in Feb was exactly as the video showed. They felt they could not get the video for legal and moral issues, so they never saught it out.......

 

So, why is it they released him now and not in Feb? idiots.......... & spen stick around buddy....

[dc.]

Papa, you do realize that I called you out on the O's primarily because it's the past you take so frequently... And coupled with the fact we actually made an agreed upon, "OK, this is what I see coming, let's see who's right?" Even the point of getting the predictions on record was to highlight this habit of yours in the first place.

 

Sure you have a memory like an elephant, but I guess the question is what purpose does it serve? I don't think many were taking "S"... They were just talking. And holding on to every comment to be able throw it back (without being willing to call on your own mistakes the same way) isn't impressive, it's shallow and vindictive.

[RavenMad]

Papa, you do realize that I called you out on the O's primarily because it's the past you take so frequently... And coupled with the fact we actually made an agreed upon, "OK, this is what I see coming, let's see who's right?" Even the point of getting the predictions on record was to highlight this habit of yours in the first place.

Sure you have a memory like an elephant, but I guess the question is what purpose does it serve? I don't think many were taking "S"... They were just talking. And holding on to every comment to be able throw it back (without being willing to call on your own mistakes the same way) isn't impressive, it's shallow and vindictive.

A big massive +1 from me.

[papasmurfbell]

Is it ok if I still post here? Feeling pretty down about my foolishness.

Sure it is.

 

 

So, the Ravens say what Rice described to them back in Feb was exactly as the video showed. They felt they could not get the video for legal and moral issues, so they never saught it out.......

 

So, why is it they released him now and not in Feb? idiots.......... & spen stick around buddy....

They and the NFL are so foolish. I see proof coming that they had access to the vid and then they will have to fire other people.

 

 

 

Papa, you do realize that I called you out on the O's primarily because it's the past you take so frequently... And coupled with the fact we actually made an agreed upon, "OK, this is what I see coming, let's see who's right?" Even the point of getting the predictions on record was to highlight this habit of yours in the first place.

 

Sure you have a memory like an elephant, but I guess the question is what purpose does it serve? I don't think many were taking "S"... They were just talking. And holding on to every comment to be able throw it back (without being willing to call on your own mistakes the same way) isn't impressive, it's shallow and vindictive.

No I am not that deep. People have jumped all over me for just giving a honest assessment of the team that wasn't through the eyes of a fan. What comes around goes around.

[dc.]

 

No I am not that deep. People have jumped all over me for just giving a honest assessment of the team that wasn't through the eyes of a fan. What comes around goes around.

 

I don't think I said you were deep. I think we're in agreement - you're shallow. Your goal is to one-up. Sure, people have "jumped all over you" in disagreement with your opinions. That's called the discussion. You know you're not the most tactful personality on here (nor am I). It gets heated. But you clearly love to "throw it back." That's not "what comes around goes around"... that's "Ha, I get to one up"

 

And I stand by my point... people would be a lot less negative towards it all if it didn't take someone like me calling you out on the O's forum to get you to give your own treatment to yourself. Well before your post with every last little quote, plenty of people were on here saying, "man, we were wrong about this..." I don't think anyone counts on you to do the same. I can hardly remember an instance in which you've admitted a mistake unless directly called out for it. But maybe your elephant-like memory can help me remember.

[papasmurfbell]

 

I don't think I said you were deep. I think we're in agreement - you're shallow. Your goal is to one-up. Sure, people have "jumped all over you" in disagreement with your opinions. That's called the discussion. You know you're not the most tactful personality on here (nor am I). It gets heated. But you clearly love to "throw it back." That's not "what comes around goes around"... that's "Ha, I get to one up"

 

And I stand by my point... people would be a lot less negative towards it all if it didn't take someone like me calling you out on the O's forum to get you to give your own treatment to yourself. Well before your post with every last little quote, plenty of people were on here saying, "man, we were wrong about this..." I don't think anyone counts on you to do the same. I can hardly remember an instance in which you've admitted a mistake unless directly called out for it. But maybe your elephant-like memory can help me remember.

Except I have been called an asshole and stupid for giving an assessment. That is not discussion.

 

Hell I called myself out on this. Just yesterday I said I didn't see the Ravens cutting him. I was totally wrong. I didn't think they could bring themselves to do it. I said recently I think paying Manny would have been a bad move. After the SB I said I was wrong on that too. I do call myself on things.

[tsylvester]

I have to get this off my chest, no better place than here. Why is it Ray has to pay not once, not twice, but three times for making one mistake? 1) being suspended two games, 2) being cut from the team, 3) being kicked out of the league essentially.

 

A mistake he made while drunk, a mistake he has done everything thus far to make up for? Has shown contrition has done everything his wife has asked, the courts have ordered, the team and league have mandated? Why?

 

Why? When the Owner, GM, President and Coach of this supposedly great organization said, after he told them exactly what happened, stood in front of the media and said; "we don't give up on our players, we stand behind Ray, he made a mistake." The video proves what he told them, yet now, when their bottom line MIGHT be affected, they give up on him?

 

This is what a great organization does? Goes back on their word? This is not about a player declining and needing to dump salary. This is about perceived media and fan scrutiny and saving money on their bottom line.

 

 

This on top of a supposedly great league whose comish said to another player caught with a drug test; "You should have known". So the comish who said he holds him self and the owners above the players, to a higher standard; "Goody, you DID KNOW!"

 

Yeah, keep sinking your money into a crooked league, rooting for a hypocritical& owner all of who DID KNOW, only now do they give up on good people, a good person who made a mistake. A big one, yes, thankfully she didn't get killed when she fell and hit her head, many a necks have been broken that way. Meanwhile, several other players who DID KILL some one, were or will be back in the league in short order. psssst, end rant

[cravnravn]

I agree T, and the more i fester this the more pissed off I get, Ive already texted my Cuz and told him he can HAVE my 4 tickets to Tampa, I dont want to go, this have affected me in a bad way..I hate being lied to, and to have some mickey fuckin mouse company like TMZ expose a giant, the ALMIGHTY NFL, well that just gets my goat..

[papasmurfbell]

Had Rice been given 6 games he would still be a Raven. On every point about the Ravens and the Commish you are 100% correct. Look at the slap on the wrist for Irsay but the owners are held to a higher standard. #firegoodell