dc. Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I don't disagree, but I just think we nit pick so much sometimes. What's the point? We don't pick at so many other plays that don't seem as big, but we don't know how big they would have been if the play had been made, right? So I just think, meh... Hard play. Wish it had been made. Can't really fret from my view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubberRaven Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I still like Torrey...he's not worth true #1 money, but he's due Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I don't disagree, but I just think we nit pick so much sometimes. What's the point? We don't pick at so many other plays that don't seem as big, but we don't know how big they would have been if the play had been made, right? So I just think, meh... Hard play. Wish it had been made. Can't really fret from my view.We won, so this week there is no point in nitpicking it. When Torrey asks for a $60M contract this offseason, yes it will absolutely be worth nitpicking. Receivers who make that much money make those catches. People are nitpicking this one catch because it's representative of Torrey not being able to make this type of catch in the past. And I disagree with your second statement, we nitpick every single throw Flacco makes. When you make/ask for big money, you get analyzed on a microscopic level. Goes with the territory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsylvester Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 You owe me 500 Why? I said the Stiller would score 17, they did and I bet with Marv, not you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc. Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 We won, so this week there is no point in nitpicking it. When Torrey asks for a $60M contract this offseason, yes it will absolutely be worth nitpicking. Receivers who make that much money make those catches. People are nitpicking this one catch because it's representative of Torrey not being able to make this type of catch in the past. And I disagree with your second statement, we nitpick every single throw Flacco makes. When you make/ask for big money, you get analyzed on a microscopic level. Goes with the territory. My second point was more that we critique every last motion Joe makes, but not the other 10 guys on the offense each play. It's rare - and on some level impossible - to break down every microsecond of every play to actually know what's going on and perhaps less so to know what's meaningful and what's not. Yanda makes a decent block, but not great, the DL gets a bit further inside than he's supposed to, Joe winds up having to side-step a half step, the throw is a little bit wide, a little bit high, it hits the receivers fingers just barely, the receiver was actually a bit early on his cut... we walk away saying, "Joe messed up the throw." Maybe that's fair. Maybe the throw was behind a receiver who was early in his cut or was affected by being pushed a step sideways by a block that was 90% there. We simplify into "Ray Rice sucks this year" too much. I just don't have the energy for it anymore. "Great receivers make that catch" --> edit: great receivers make catches similar to that one. edit: great receivers make catches similar to that one most of the time. I'm not saying Torrey is a #1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutsideRzAcE Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I don't think it's nitpicking - we've seen Torrey make that catch before. It's interesting that you bring up the question of us nitpicking too much. Before the Torrey play in question there was a play where Ben threw it deep in the endzone to Antonio Brown, and Stewart knocked him out of the endzone before he could get his feet down. I said to my wife at the time something to the effect of "wow we are lucky - I can't believe he didn't angle his body to get his toes in when Stewart pushed him" - then on replay I realized that would have been incredibly difficult to do and said as much to her. The Torrey play is different - he just needs to go limp there, the downside is that at the speed he was going he subjects his body (likely shoulder) to a big impact/collision with the ground. Like I said I think i've seen Torrey make that play before, so I consider it a mental lapse - and it kinda bothered me because that was a huge moment in the game. We were up only 5 after Forsett fumbles and the Steelers have a quick strike TD. If Tucker doesn't nail that 52 yarder it could have been a different game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robjr83 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Presto has said that Torrey is "soft", I think he didn't want to hit the ground so he didn't even try to drag the foot. We've seen this before, I love Torrey as a person but no way does Oz throw top tier money at him. I looked at this season's FA Wrs and I'm guessing he'll want 4-6 mil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldno82 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Where the hell is Steel? THAT is my question of the day... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldno82 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I still like Torrey...he's not worth true #1 money, but he's due That's how I see it. He's not a beast but he's a good one and a keeper. Some other team will probably overpay him if he wants truly big money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmax Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 That's how I see it. He's not a beast but he's a good one and a keeper. Some other team will probably overpay him if he wants truly big money. You have to have a QB who can get the ball to Torrey....few teams do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc. Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I don't think it's nitpicking - we've seen Torrey make that catch before. It's interesting that you bring up the question of us nitpicking too much. Before the Torrey play in question there was a play where Ben threw it deep in the endzone to Antonio Brown, and Stewart knocked him out of the endzone before he could get his feet down. I said to my wife at the time something to the effect of "wow we are lucky - I can't believe he didn't angle his body to get his toes in when Stewart pushed him" - then on replay I realized that would have been incredibly difficult to do and said as much to her. The Torrey play is different - he just needs to go limp there, the downside is that at the speed he was going he subjects his body (likely shoulder) to a big impact/collision with the ground. Like I said I think i've seen Torrey make that play before, so I consider it a mental lapse - and it kinda bothered me because that was a huge moment in the game. We were up only 5 after Forsett fumbles and the Steelers have a quick strike TD. If Tucker doesn't nail that 52 yarder it could have been a different game. I'm not calling out anyone in particular for nit picking, just generally in sorts discussions everywhere - and every sport. And really just saying in the aftermath of the game, I just don't care that much. If we lost, we might be focused on that play but my question is simply what about any of the other 100+ in the game... And it's just not worth it in my mind to always run through those exercises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc. Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 As a side note, Torrey makes that catch a lot. Randy Moss and others made it more often and more consistently. But even they missed it sometimes. And Travis Taylor, our favorite, was notorious for making that kind of difficult catch and then dropping anything else. So again, I just shrug. Happy it didn't matter but not able to muster much worry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 My second point was more that we critique every last motion Joe makes, but not the other 10 guys on the offense each play. It's rare - and on some level impossible - to break down every microsecond of every play to actually know what's going on and perhaps less so to know what's meaningful and what's not. Yanda makes a decent block, but not great, the DL gets a bit further inside than he's supposed to, Joe winds up having to side-step a half step, the throw is a little bit wide, a little bit high, it hits the receivers fingers just barely, the receiver was actually a bit early on his cut... we walk away saying, "Joe messed up the throw." Maybe that's fair. Maybe the throw was behind a receiver who was early in his cut or was affected by being pushed a step sideways by a block that was 90% there. We simplify into "Ray Rice sucks this year" too much. I just don't have the energy for it anymore. "Great receivers make that catch" --> edit: great receivers make catches similar to that one. edit: great receivers make catches similar to that one most of the time. I'm not saying Torrey is a #1.We'll agree to disagree. I certainly think there is enough information, tape, analysis, and other resources out there to break down a player's game and make informed judgements on an individualized basis. And in the salary cap era, you absolutely have to take into account a player's salary in comparison to what other players are getting. So there's a bottom line performance factor whether it's fair or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravnravn Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Why? I said the Stiller would score 17, they did and I bet with Marv, not you Weasel you said the steelers BY 17, I'm making u cement shoes, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc. Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 We'll agree to disagree. I certainly think there is enough information, tape, analysis, and other resources out there to break down a player's game and make informed judgements on an individualized basis. And in the salary cap era, you absolutely have to take into account a player's salary in comparison to what other players are getting. So there's a bottom line performance factor whether it's fair or not.To evaluate the player over a period if time - yes. To evaluate the impact of a play on a game - less so. I'm discussing the latter. I don't think we're that far off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsylvester Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Weasel you said the steelers BY 17, I'm making u cement shoes, My guido is bigger than your guido..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavenMad Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Presto has said that Torrey is "soft", I think he didn't want to hit the ground so he didn't even try to drag the foot. We've seen this before, I love Torrey as a person but no way does Oz throw top tier money at him. I looked at this season's FA Wrs and I'm guessing he'll want 4-6 mil.If he only wants $4m per season then we have to resign him as he is worth that. Anything more and I don't see Torrey back in Baltimore. Regardless we still need to work on getting a couple of big athletic targets for Joe in the draft and/or via free agency/trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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