where the game was lost

[dc.]

If I were to place rank whose to blame

 

1: defensive coaching (i.e dean peas)

2: secondary personnell (giving up big plays)

3: flacco

4: offensive play calling

 

Minus the name calling. I tend to agree with chyper on the point that joe has been a disaster in the final 4 mins. 1-6 this season with the game on the line In the final minutes speaks for itself. I understand in some cases he has gotten the lead earlier in the game...if he thinks himself amount the leagues elite when it's time to sit down at the negotiating table then he needs to come through at least more often than not at the end when the game on the line.

 

I would add a few more items to the list in general - and perhaps just put Flacco and Oplay-calling on the same line. I think when things are really good -and really bad- it becomes difficult to distinguish between the scheme and the components as to which are failing.

 

Meanwhile, I just think Joe's play in the final minutes has been very in line with the rest of the game - not great by any means, inconsistent, certainly. But like differentiating between the play calling and QB, etc... I don't see his play in the final minutes as especially better or worse than the rest of the game.

 

It is also totally fair to "expect" something of the QB who considers himself - and wants to get paid - among the best in the league. My point only was that we actually have no clue what Brady's numbers or play would look like if he were scratching for every victory in the final two minutes. Maybe I am forgetting a season where that was his reality. This is not the same as saying "Joe and Brady are the same." It's saying that breaking Joe's numbers down by his final four minutes doesn't make sense.

 

To put it another way - something tells me that most teams who have the fight for a win in the final two minutes EVERY WEEK don't wind up as very good ... is that a failing in the final two minutes or a sign of a failing across the entire game? I would argue the latter. If this TEAM were any good, then the games wouldn't even be in question in those final minutes.

[oldno82]

...To put it another way - something tells me that most teams who have the fight for a win in the final two minutes EVERY WEEK don't wind up as very good ... is that a failing in the final two minutes or a sign of a failing across the entire game? I would argue the latter. If this TEAM were any good, then the games wouldn't even be in question in those final minutes.

 

[OutsideRzAcE]

Unfortunately, this was about the Zona game and 5 straight possessions to open the 2nd half and 5 straight punts.

 

Agreed. These long spans of offensive ineptitude during games has been the hallmark of this team under Harbaugh and Flacco outside of last year.

 

Just to correct you a bit:

 

Week 2 Joe leads us to a fg and the lead with 2:44 left in the game, only to have the D fold.

 

Week 3 vs Cinncy Joe leads us to a lead with a TD 24-21 with 2:41 left. Only to have the D fold.

 

Week 5 with 2:38 left Joe leads us to the game tying fg, only to have the D fold in OT.

 

So your 4:00 claim really holds no water.

 

You bring up a good point about the timing of those scoring plays, so I'll drop the 4 minute criticism. My larger point about his ineffectiveness with the game on the line remains.

 

Week 1 Den Flacco had the game winner dropped by Smith before he threw the pic. I don't blame him for this one.

Week 2 Oak Flacco did lead the Ravens to a FG, but after the Ravens get the ball on the 37 yard line after a Will Hill INT. Flacco misses a wide open Steve Smith and the Ravens settle for a FG. Eventually that is the difference as Oak drives for a winning TD. This loss is on the D but this was a late game failure for Flacco (after an overall good day)

Week 3 Cin: Flacco did lead the Ravens to a TD against a good bengals D. Conversely with Flacco has 2 minutes left and goes 4 and out.

Week 4 Pit - Needs 2 missed FG to pull this one out.

Week 5 Cle - The D blew the game in OT but after Flacco got the ball first. 3 Plays 0 yards - Punt.

Week 6 Ari - INT on terrible throw at the end of the game.

[cravnravn]

I purposely didn't mention week 1 drop because Cypher would have went nuts,

[vmax]

January Joe brought them back again...bad center and all...no Steve Smith....

[cravnravn]

January Joe brought them back again...bad center and all...no Steve Smith....

But guaranteed, the 3 amigos with an agenda will fault January Joe and rest assure the contract will be mentioned

[OutsideRzAcE]

 

I would add a few more items to the list in general - and perhaps just put Flacco and Oplay-calling on the same line. I think when things are really good -and really bad- it becomes difficult to distinguish between the scheme and the components as to which are failing.

 

Meanwhile, I just think Joe's play in the final minutes has been very in line with the rest of the game - not great by any means, inconsistent, certainly. But like differentiating between the play calling and QB, etc... I don't see his play in the final minutes as especially better or worse than the rest of the game.

 

It is also totally fair to "expect" something of the QB who considers himself - and wants to get paid - among the best in the league. My point only was that we actually have no clue what Brady's numbers or play would look like if he were scratching for every victory in the final two minutes. Maybe I am forgetting a season where that was his reality. This is not the same as saying "Joe and Brady are the same." It's saying that breaking Joe's numbers down by his final four minutes doesn't make sense.

 

To put it another way - something tells me that most teams who have the fight for a win in the final two minutes EVERY WEEK don't wind up as very good ... is that a failing in the final two minutes or a sign of a failing across the entire game? I would argue the latter. If this TEAM were any good, then the games wouldn't even be in question in those final minutes.

 

Two quick points that I wanted to save for after the game today.

 

1.) I agree that this is a bad team and I have said that the primary reason for the losing is not Joe. If we had a semi competent defense the Ravens would be at least .500 not, possibly 5-2. My comments specifically are about Joe and on his failings this season with the game on the line.

2.) I do think it's important to separate Joe and the O Play calling. When I list Joe as reason #3, i'm speaking specifically about issues with his play. The consistent inability to hit guys that are wide open deep and the occasional questionable stupid decisions (i.e. fumble in Pittsburgh and the terrible toss up to end the game in AZ)...also the backfoot Joe that we have seen all too often. How great was it to see that sweet drop pass to Givens today? Why is that such a rarity with Joe? For every one he makes it seems he misses 8.

 

Speaking of the play calling, even though I think it has been overall inconsistent this year, I have seen good signs. It's especially true when you consider that this is only year 1. I think Trestman may already be the best offensive Coordinator we've had not named Kubiak. While there have been stretches of ineptitude during games there has also been stretches of productivity that we haven't seen outside of the Kubiak years or the SB playoff run.

[cravnravn]

Is it a bad team or is the AFC in a down year? Other then new England theres not a another AFC team that is strong..don't want to hear any talk of cinncy, all they do is waste a playoff spot.

[dc.]

 

Two quick points that I wanted to save for after the game today.

 

1.) I agree that this is a bad team and I have said that the primary reason for the losing is not Joe. If we had a semi competent defense the Ravens would be at least .500 not, possibly 5-2. My comments specifically are about Joe and on his failings this season with the game on the line.

2.) I do think it's important to separate Joe and the O Play calling. When I list Joe as reason #3, i'm speaking specifically about issues with his play. The consistent inability to hit guys that are wide open deep and the occasional questionable stupid decisions (i.e. fumble in Pittsburgh and the terrible toss up to end the game in AZ)...also the backfoot Joe that we have seen all too often. How great was it to see that sweet drop pass to Givens today? Why is that such a rarity with Joe? For every one he makes it seems he misses 8.

 

Speaking of the play calling, even though I think it has been overall inconsistent this year, I have seen good signs. It's especially true when you consider that this is only year 1. I think Trestman may already be the best offensive Coordinator we've had not named Kubiak. While there have been stretches of ineptitude during games there has also been stretches of productivity that we haven't seen outside of the Kubiak years or the SB playoff run.

On the Joe vs play calling- I agree that Joe is, and always has been, up and down. "Back foot Joe" is just a part of who he is; he hides him well at times but sometimes he busts out.

 

I didn't mean to say the two items were inseparable, but just that they are tightly linked. And my theory is that separating the two gets harder as teams get worse and better. A bad individual play doesn't make aQB play poorly, but a series of wonky calls can mess anyone up. Similarly, a bad player can make decent calls look awful. The same is true in reverse. And when you get bad player with bad calls, or good player with good calls, it simply becomes harder to divvy credit and blame.

[tsylvester]

 

 

 

Speaking of the play calling, even though I think it has been overall inconsistent this year, I have seen good signs. It's especially true when you consider that this is only year 1. I think Trestman may already be the best offensive Coordinator we've had not named Kubiak. While there have been stretches of ineptitude during games there has also been stretches of productivity that we haven't seen outside of the Kubiak years or the SB playoff run.

 

 

That isn't saying much, now is it....

 

 

The redzone play calling under Tresman has been atrocious, or is that expealidocious............... What we, all of us need to keep in mind in the final two minutes of games this year, are the players he as to work with. I will gladly pay you tomorrow for a wide receiver today.........

 

Look, these guys struggle to get open, to catch passes, to get any semblance of seperation all game long, and we expect them to all of a sudden to those things in the last two minutes of a game?

 

Has Flacco missed some passes in those last few minutes of each game? Sure, but what QB has not? Rogers, anyone? 77 freaking yards total last night....

 

But when you have hold the ball a split second longer because these guys need that time to get an inch of seperation, the pressure from the rush gets there quickly, passes are off target by what, a few inches, when these guys have 0, ZERO catch radius.....

 

The failures this season, THIS SEASON mind everyone, to win games at the end, or hold the ball for the final minutes so the defense doesn't get a chance to blow the game, are a combination of many factors, yes, play calling is one factor, Joe is another, by personell, to me, is the biggest issue.

 

Now injuries have forced their hand and some players not living up to what they ave done in the past, have pushe dothers to the forefront.

 

Oh I will give Treman some credit, did everyone notice, in the past two games, the offense has slowed play down, eating as much clock, play clock, as possible to shorten the game and keep the defense off the field as much as possible.....

[oldno82]

I also saw Trestman have Joe roll out after a play action fake. Joe did well with that under Kubiak. Maybe Trestman is figuring things out.

[cravnravn]

Again, its after the break, we go pick, pick, fumble to start the 2nd half

[oldno82]

And way too many ******** penalties!

[GrubberRaven]

If Flacco refuses to restructure, drop that piece of shit. Hell drop the whole damn team...wasted three hours of my life on this joke of a shit team...

[cravnravn]

If Flacco refuses to restructure, drop that piece of shit. Hell drop the whole damn team...wasted three hours of my life on this joke of a shit team...

Ugggh I agree, but the game is still fresh

[cravnravn]

Joe has absolutely zero weapons,Aiken fucking blows, brown fucking blows, givens fucking blows

[oldno82]

Joe has absolutely zero weapons,Aiken fucking blows, brown fucking blows, givens fucking blows

 

True, Crav. But if he won't restructure we're going to need all the cap space we get can get. We need WRs, a power RB, probably a new LG, at least one more CB, pass rushers (Suggs will be beyond his prime when he returns), and if Joe goes a new QB. I think that's going to take more than one year of rebuilding.

[OutsideRzAcE]

Joe may need to go even if he agrees to restructure. It's going to be interesting to see how tough the Ravens get in their negotiations. This team is seriously devoid of playmakers it may be better for them to try to trade Joe if the two sides aren't close.

[GrubberRaven]

News flash...the Jags top two receivers were undrafted...

 

This team couldn't sniff a WR if he was dead and rotting in front of him...

[papasmurfbell]

Joe has absolutely zero weapons,Aiken fucking blows, brown fucking blows, givens fucking blows

My point exactly. Without great talent at WR to correct for Joe's mistakes you see the results.

 

 

Joe may need to go even if he agrees to restructure. It's going to be interesting to see how tough the Ravens get in their negotiations. This team is seriously devoid of playmakers it may be better for them to try to trade Joe if the two sides aren't close.

Who would take that contract over?

 

 

News flash...the Jags top two receivers were undrafted...

 

This team couldn't sniff a WR if he was dead and rotting in front of him...

That is very funny.

[TBird]

Joe has absolutely zero weapons,Aiken fucking blows, brown fucking blows, givens fucking blows

 

Im taking out all those o's I used when typing Doom's name. No such thing.

He has a stupid face mask penalty as time is expiring away from the ball

and the guy who missed a 40 yarder makes a 53 yarder to win in their first

road win in 3 years and 30 + games.

 

Elvis handed them the game on a silver platter. Ravens thought the game was over

when they kicked the FG and were saying WTF?????

[TBird]

My point exactly. Without great talent at WR to correct for Joe's mistakes you see the results.

 

 

Who would take that contract over?

 

 

That is very funny.

They'd give you a new ass hole over on RSR for that. Joe didn't lose that game.

The guy has to make that play on the first one. He didn't JOe has no playmakers.

 

Then Aiken misses and ball is intercepted. Those INTs are not on Joe but for the

lack of weapons. Givens finally caught a TD.

 

Elvis lost the game with the face maks penalty as clock expired, gave them one more

kick and after shaking a shorter one earlier, the guy kicks a 53 yarder. Go figure.

[TBird]

They'd give you a new ass hole over on RSR for that pic and caption, Joe didn't lose that game.

Givens has to make that play on the first one. He didn't JOe has no play makers.

 

Then Aiken misses and ball is intercepted. Those INTs are not on Joe but for the

lack of weapons. Givens finally caught a TD but Ravens should have won by 2 TDs.

 

Elvis lost the game with the face maks penalty as clock expired, gave them one more

kick and after shanking a shorter one earlier, the guy kicks a 53 yarder. Go figure.