Close loss, rinse, repeat

[OutsideRzAcE]

What a thriller that was! Kept me guessing until the end. I was dying to find out how the Ravens would blow this one. Would they bother to take the lead before blowing it late or would they just come close enough to let Flacco blow yet another game winning drive. What a surprise to find out the answer was both!

 

Where to start? Flacco is average. This is not breaking news. Get everything perfect around him and he can play well, otherwise he blows. He doesn't understand game situations - I don't know what was worse on that last drive: The failure to call timeout after either of the 2 intermediate passes down the middle, calling a time out after a 5 yard pass, missing an open Mike Wallace near the goal line, or throwing late into triple coverage on the last play of the game. I feel like Flacco is 0 for his last 50 game winning drive attempts. When is the last time this guy came through for us?

 

Harbaugh - what good is Harbaugh really? If he is only as good as his coordinators then what is the point of his job? In reality our boy is a figurehead. When you are in the position that Harbs is in (being at the mercy of your coordinators) you better make damned sure you have good coordinators. Dean Pees is a joke. I don't care what the defense is ranked, he should have been fired last year. His inability to make in game adjustments is inexcusable. I don't want to hear that he's got injuries on the defense - that's where scheme and playcalling becomes that much more important. Harbaugh made a good move firing trestman last week - the kind of move he should have made with Pees last year. We have no pass rush - this unfortunately means we will have no pass rush for the rest of the year because Pees isn't clever enough to manufacture one.

 

I'm a pretty loyal fan but I'm getting tired of watching this same weak show every week. We've all heard the statistics about close games. Greg Gumble said something about the Ravens have had their first 5 games decided by 6 points or less 5 years in a row. Every week we play a close game and most of the time we lose it. What is the common denominator? Who is most at fault.

 

I'd start by canning Pees. It won't happen because the D has played well most of the year, but again I believe he should have been gone last year. Harbs' fate should be decided at the end of the season. Bisciotti got rid of Billick and noone saw it coming so it wouldn't surprise me to see him to give Harbs the hook if this team ends up missing the playoffs yet again.

 

As for Flacco - it's incredibly difficult to find a franchise QB. We have one that has won the SB. Still, I think he's gotten complacent and his body of work since that SB is pretty weak. Draft a QB in the early rounds to push him. This past year we had an early pick and made it clear we were not in the QB hunt - this year If we find ourselves in the same situation I think we should be open to one.

[dapetes]

Flacco key word average. Salary not for average QB, salary for great QB. Ravens will improve when Flaccos contract runs out or he is released. Get used to more of the same. Bad decision by management.

[cravnravn]

With the afcn this close, I'd make a change at the bye, we are not out of it. But with Harbs & Joe I think we've rode that train as far as it will go.

[ravinmaniac52]

Flacco is average but the best average out there. Even if VA doesn't think so I think Joe is better then the guy across the field today.

 

I think enough is enough of Harbaugh, dude doesn't know his own team or he is trying to make his team something it isn't.

[cravnravn]

I honestly thinks Harbs is an OK coach, just not here anymore, he did his job, we won with him, time to move on, same with Joe, he just looks lost heading out offence

[OutsideRzAcE]

I don't think you make a change for either without having a viable replacement, however it's time to start looking for those replacements. It's time to stop with the line of thinking that says "we're set at QB and HC". Right now I really wish Steve had the balls (and I grant it would have been a ballsy move) to keep Kubes and fire Harbs. Even knowing Kubes' health issue it would have been worth it.

[OutsideRzAcE]

Flacco is average but the best average out there. Even if VA doesn't think so I think Joe is better then the guy across the field today.

 

I think enough is enough of Harbaugh, dude doesn't know his own team or he is trying to make his team something it isn't.

 

I think you are splitting hairs. They are basically the same guy, though Eli's put together two winning postseason runs.

[ravinmaniac52]

I don't think you make a change for either without having a viable replacement, however it's time to start looking for those replacements. It's time to stop with the line of thinking that says "we're set at QB and HC". Right now I really wish Steve had the balls (and I grant it would have been a ballsy move) to keep Kubes and fire Harbs. Even knowing Kubes' health issue it would have been worth it.

Never was a fan. He ran the zone blocking that fit with the RBs we had at the time like that dude he had in Texas. Payton Manning running his side of the ball when Kubes got there and he set records with it then the D caught on fire last season(see 2000 Ravens) and carried the team.

 

If we are playing this game I am going with Del Rio

[OutsideRzAcE]

Flacco had arguably his best year with Kubes as his coordinator. I think if you find someone who can get the most out of Flacco you find a way to keep them even if it means giving him the big job. The Bucs did that with Winston's OC and fired Lovie Smith when they thought they would lose the OC.

[oldno82]

I don't think you make a change for either without having a viable replacement, however it's time to start looking for those replacements. It's time to stop with the line of thinking that says "we're set at QB and HC". Right now I really wish Steve had the balls (and I grant it would have been a ballsy move) to keep Kubes and fire Harbs. Even knowing Kubes' health issue it would have been worth it.

Yeah, I thought that too, but Denver head coach under his buddy Elway was too much for him to pass on.

[ravinmaniac52]

 

I think you are splitting hairs. They are basically the same guy, though Eli's put together two winning postseason runs.

I don't know what it is but I have seen Eli often think maybe it is one them shoved down yeah do to tv crap oh and don't tell anyone I have family in Jersey but anyways, I have never seen a QB put up INTs at the wrong times so much, vinny testaverde maybe?

 

Payton stunk last season. Newton(MVP) who I love to watch play scares people cause he just won't run he will run you over but that is coming to an end. But who out there would you take? Andy Dalton?

[ravinmaniac52]

Flacco had arguably his best year with Kubes as his coordinator. I think if you find someone who can get the most out of Flacco you find a way to keep them even if it means giving him the big job. The Bucs did that with Winston's OC and fired Lovie Smith when they thought they would lose the OC.

how do you pick his best playing time?

[OutsideRzAcE]

Yeah, I thought that too, but Denver head coach under his buddy Elway was too much for him to pass on.

You don't think he could have been convinced to $$$tay for the right price?

[OutsideRzAcE]

how do you pick his best playing time?

Well I was just going off of memory but when I look it up it looks like he has the most yardage best TD-int ratio and second best Qb rating if his career under kubiack

[varaven45]

The team drafts Joes eventual replacement this years draft. Meantime, its Joltin Joes team. Next season, Harbs or whoever is the HC, gives Joe a run for his money.

[OutsideRzAcE]

I don't know what it is but I have seen Eli often think maybe it is one them shoved down yeah do to tv crap oh and don't tell anyone I have family in Jersey but anyways, I have never seen a QB put up INTs at the wrong times so much, vinny testaverde maybe?

 

Payton stunk last season. Newton(MVP) who I love to watch play scares people cause he just won't run he will run you over but that is coming to an end. But who out there would you take? Andy Dalton?

 

Are you asking which current starting QB's I would take over Flacco?

 

For sure:

Rogers

Wilson

Newton

Roethlisberger

Rivers

Carr

Mariotta

 

 

Maybe/Debateable:

Brady (age)

Brees (age)

Ryan

Wentz

Prescott

Winston

Dalton

Luck

 

No

Keenum

Kaepernick

Stafford

Fitzpatrick

Tannehill

Browns QB

Manning

A. Smith

Bradford

Cutler

Semian

Osweiller

Cousins

Bortles

Tyrod Taylor

[ravinmaniac52]

 

Are you asking which current starting QB's I would take over Flacco?

 

For sure:

Rogers

Wilson

Newton

Roethlisberger

Rivers

Carr

Mariotta

 

 

Maybe/Debateable:

Brady (age)

Brees (age)

Ryan

Wentz

Prescott

Winston

Dalton

Luck

 

No

Keenum

Kaepernick

Stafford

Fitzpatrick

Tannehill

Browns QB

Manning

A. Smith

Bradford

Cutler

Semian

Osweiller

Cousins

Bortles

Tyrod Taylor

Yes.

 

I think Roethlisberger and Rivers could be added to the age thing.

So to me your looking at 5 guys out the whole NFL and I am sure beside the teams they are on, the rest would love to have these 5 guys also.

 

Have to wait and see on Prescott and Winston I do like what I have seen from Prescott and I can't stand the Cowboys. Wentz is another guy just not sure yet I did love what he did to the Steelers. Dalton is also no better then the team around him, wish we had AJ Green. Luck is really starting to look over-hyped may have been the whole next Payton thing and he to is only as good as the team around him. Ryan? Another guy with a great WR. Lot INTs with that guy and has he won anything?

[OutsideRzAcE]

We're looking at 7 QB's minimum, maybe half the league I'd switch for Flacco today, and the only reason it isn't more is because of Flacco's postseason history. That said Flacco's postseason history is just that - history. At some point we have to see Flacco start to produce again in the here and now. A different, perhaps more relavant question is how many QB's I would take over Flacco if I need to win a game tomorrow - or how many I would take over Flacco for the rest of this season. For me it would be at least 20 of those starters, maybe more. That's almost 3 quarters of the league.

[varaven45]

You know, this team almost reminds me of the pre-2008 mode - when we transitioned to Harbs, Flacco and Rice. It's beginning to feel that way again.

 

And if it happens, it's not so bad. The league is so watered down and play is so mediocre, any team can go from last place to first place in a yr or two.

 

As far as I'm concerned, the sooner the better on the transitioning.

[oldno82]

You don't think he could have been convinced to $$$tay for the right price?

I think Denver would have matched any offer we made. A shame they needed an HC the same time we had Kubiak.

[Robjr83]

I think Denver would have matched any offer we made. A shame they needed an HC the same time we had Kubiak.

 

Yeah I'm sure the Ravens offered some $$$ to him but Kubs was "their guy". He has a history there too which may have played more a part than any $$$.

[tsylvester]

Cant argue about Flacco. I dont know where his head is at, at this point. He missed several open receivers for touchdowns. One play comes to mind early in thw first half when they were in the red zone. He had time, he had Wallace in the endzone one an in breaking route and Pitta at the five on a crossing route, they were tiered. Had thrown to either of them, their defenders were behind them, it is 7 pts. Instead he threw to Aiken on the outside who went ob at the 5.

 

That is just one instance. Maybe he is shell shock and feeling ghosts as the saying goes, so he wants to get rid of it quickly.

 

Maybe with all the changes in offensive coordinators, he still has echoes in his head...

 

Either way, he is not seeing the field clearly, it appears to me from the tv view.

 

But that clock management at the end was terrible as well.

 

I don't blame him for the loss, the play calls were terrible once again.

 

Harbs wanting to take that 15 yard penalty on the extra point showed, to me, he continues to show terrible game management and his press conference, what a joke. He thinks he has talented guys in the secondary who can cover but they just don't look?

 

Same old Ravens is what first came to mind when the game ended. Poor line play, poor play calling\ play design, poor game management, no pressure on the quarterback, poor fans for yet another game that should have been won but was lost.

[vmax]

Great post and thread.

 

In general the Ravens have a good coaching staff top to bottom compared to the rest of the league.

But collectively they are not good enough to get this roster and team into the upper echelon of the NFL.

 

The record pace of penalties and mental errors tell the tale of a team that is lacking in discipline, focus and communication.

This is a disjointed lot.

That's on coaching.

 

In game adjustments? Coaching.

 

On Harbaugh: He is no Tom Coughlin or Bellicheat when it comes to developing a winning game plan for opponents.

The top HC's know how develop to a winning formula and team identity.

This team has none.

Had none last year or the year before that.

That's on Harbaugh.

[varaven45]

Well said Max and others.

 

Since the SB year - 2013- this team has lacked the character, chemistry and substance (personnel) of the great teams we watched last decade and part of this one. This winning formula and mantra left with Ray and his final season.

 

Somehow someway this organizations needs to find the right people in the front office and on the field to bring that winning formula back.

 

And like many posters have already lamented , I think we will continue to see tthis team continue to grind it out every Sunday, winning here and winning there, but remaining in mediocrity until the above formula is rediscovered.

[ravinmaniac52]

we gain less then 40 more years with the new guy? Did I hear that right?