Ravens/Browns

[Spen]

Stats show it's really hard to win the third road game in a row.....so next week might be tough too

[tsylvester]

Undisciplined teams will show their true colors when they are tired. The penalty by Moore lost the potential game, the ruffing the passer helped lose the game.

 

Then again, had these officials been good or been allowed to call penalties, it would have been a blood bath of yellow on both teams.

 

3 man routes don't work against match up zone coverage. But then, when you have to max protect just to throw a 5 yard hitch route, you're in trouble.

 

The route combinations were terrible most of the game, nothing consistently put together to beat their coverage.

 

Four, five drops by receivers, one for a touchdown.

 

Using the glorified back up qb in over time when you can finally run the ball? In regulation, when you have just driven the length of the field in 10 plays?

 

Even with the clear flatness of this team, this game was winnable, but the coaching was horrible once again. Same old Ravens after a big win, flat, predictable, loss.

[varaven45]

Browns won their super bowl

[papasmurfbell]

Browns won their super bowl

I think they have much bigger desires.

[GrubberRaven]

If they want to see Jackson play so bad, let him start...they aren't fooling a damn person. What a shit game...

[oldno82]

Whats with Crabtree's hands? He used to be an automatic catch.

 

He was a drive killer today.

 

And why is Tucker suddenly getting blocked? Is it him, which I doubt, or the protection?

[vmax]

 

Quarterback: Joe Flacco threw 56 passes and the Ravens scored only nine points. His one interception changed the tone of the game, and the offense never got into a good flow. There were some passes that were just miserable. It was Flacco’s worst game of the season. Grade: D+...........Coaching: The Ravens weren’t ready to play and were fortunate to be in the game. Coordinator Marty Mornhinweg had a poor game, and defensive coordinator Don “Wink” Martindale is in a bind trying to bring pressure and stay in some type of deep coverage. Ravens made few offensive adjustments as the game wore on. Grade: D.............http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/mikeprestonreportcards/bs-sp-ravens-browns-grades-1008-story.html

 

We've seen this before. These are the kind of pitiful performances that they look back when wondering why they didn't make the playoffs.

The Browns played gracious host and tried real hard to give this one away.

And yet....the Browns wanted it more.

Back to the drawing board.

[varaven45]

Aside from LA Rams and KC , all NFL teams are flawed to some degree. Ours were on display yesterday; need to fix em and get ready for Tennessee.

[tsylvester]

 

He was a drive killer today.

 

And why is Tucker suddenly getting blocked? Is it him, which I doubt, or the protection?

It is a protection issue they need to fix. That one was legit, the first one this year was illegal, nothing they can do about stopping that type of block.

[papasmurfbell]

 

He was a drive killer today.

 

And why is Tucker suddenly getting blocked? Is it him, which I doubt, or the protection?

I think it was the Cincy game where he dropped a bunch also.

 

The block was all th eprotection. Like the bs picks that bounce off of the WR this should not be on the kicker.

 

 

Aside from LA Rams and KC , all NFL teams are flawed to some degree. Ours were on display yesterday; need to fix em and get ready for Tennessee.

KC's D is a major flaw. Alos NE seems to be rounding into form now.

[papasmurfbell]

Like so often Joe was allowed to throw to often. The were 20 attempts for 93 yds by the RBs. That is a great average. Keep running the damned ball. Do not let Joe throw it. He needs to be on a leash like a bad dog. 56 passing attempts by Joe is to many. He should have had no more than 45. He is only a game manager and needs to be kept restricted. A giant portion of this is on Marty for getting away from the run.

[tsylvester]

I have to disagree Papa. Let's look at one play design. They keep 3 tight ends in, two to help block, one goes on a deep post, one receiver to the strong side (same side as the receiving tight end) does a simple short out route. The back, leaks out to the weak side.

 

Now, there is no play action, no crossing so the linebackers don't bite up, they drop into their coverage lanes, a depth of 15 yards, the safeties are deep.

 

What is Joe supposed to do? The line collapses on him, there is a tiny, tiny window between the safety and backers that the tight end never reaches before Joe has to throw. So he throws into that window, the ball falls incomplete; 3 defenders in that window.

 

Had their been a play action or an underneath crossing route, either would draw the SAM backer up, allowing the end to get a free release & get to the spot with a larger window.

 

That is not on Joe, that is Marty; play design.

 

Even the pick at the goal line was not all Joe's fault. Everyone knew that play was coming, even then, had the ball not been tipped, it hits the tight end right between the numbers. Does he catch it? Doubtful, there were two defenders closing in as we saw.

 

I could go over 20 plays like those two in this game where both play design and predictability were the cause of the failure.

 

A coach's job is to put their player in a position to succeed, and the coaches failed miserably in this game in doing this, on offense & defense.

 

I would almost expect this type of simple game plan on a short week, but that was not the case.

 

Don't get me started on the defense, Baker completed less than 50% of his passes when they blitzed, they did not blitz enough...

[papasmurfbell]

That is what I am alluding to. Martyball is not good for the team. He needs to keep a leash on Joe. He needs to run much more. Marty thinks Joe is some sort of Rodgers or Brady.

[papasmurfbell]

I have to disagree Papa. Let's look at one play design. They keep 3 tight ends in, two to help block, one goes on a deep post, one receiver to the strong side (same side as the receiving tight end) does a simple short out route. The back, leaks out to the weak side.

 

Now, there is no play action, no crossing so the linebackers don't bite up, they drop into their coverage lanes, a depth of 15 yards, the safeties are deep.

 

What is Joe supposed to do? The line collapses on him, there is a tiny, tiny window between the safety and backers that the tight end never reaches before Joe has to throw. So he throws into that window, the ball falls incomplete; 3 defenders in that window.

 

Had their been a play action or an underneath crossing route, either would draw the SAM backer up, allowing the end to get a free release & get to the spot with a larger window.

 

That is not on Joe, that is Marty; play design.

 

Even the pick at the goal line was not all Joe's fault. Everyone knew that play was coming, even then, had the ball not been tipped, it hits the tight end right between the numbers. Does he catch it? Doubtful, there were two defenders closing in as we saw.

 

I could go over 20 plays like those two in this game where both play design and predictability were the cause of the failure.

 

A coach's job is to put their player in a position to succeed, and the coaches failed miserably in this game in doing this, on offense & defense.

 

I would almost expect this type of simple game plan on a short week, but that was not the case.

 

Don't get me started on the defense, Baker completed less than 50% of his passes when they blitzed, they did not blitz enough...

http://www.espn.com/blog/baltimore-ravens/post/_/id/31211/fewer-joe-flacco-passes-usually-results-in-more-wins-for-ravens

 

Fewer Joe Flacco passes usually results in more victories for Ravens

 

Since Flacco signed his $120.6 million deal before the 2013 season, the Ravens are 21-10 (.678) when Flacco throws 40 or fewer times. When he is flinging the ball over 40 times, Baltimore is 3-15 (.167) over that same span.

 

"We do want to be able to run the ball so I don’t shy away from that," coach John Harbaugh said. "I think it is important to be able to run the ball well. There are going to be times where the defense is just begging for you to throw it on them. If you do it well, people are going to be happy with you. That is what we need to do –- we need to be good at what we do.”

 

 

 

It gets back to the same old problems and the same old not dealing with them. Harbs again lets his OC not do what is best to win the game bc he doesn't understand what is going on during the game.

[papasmurfbell]

I never expected how the div is shifting this season.

[tsylvester]

Look, we both know stats can be and are often misleading. Since his contract, he blew out a knee and hurt his back, if you look at all the qbs who had the same injuries, guess what you see? A decline until they fully heal a year later.

 

Most teams lose when a qb has to throw 50 times a game, especially teams with the porous offensive line and horrible qide receivers this organization has had over the years.

 

I am not saying Joe is Tom Brady nor Aaron Rogers, I am saying that play design has been and was an issue in this and other games.

 

I gave Marty credit for the few games this year that they used good combinations of routes and play calling, if you remember the 13 for 13 in redzone thread.

 

I did not use stats, I called up two plays and can use 20 more in this past game ( and other games) where the route combinations were terrible, not conducive to getting receivers open.

 

One that was in this game is a good example, on the last drive to tie the game where Moore got open and got the 20 yards needed. A shallow cross under verticle & a seam route. It beats man coverage which it did then.

 

A perfect example of a good play design.

 

Marty had bee using designs for man coverage with receivers who can't beat man before this year.

 

Yeaterday, he used old designs with players who for some reason, had no legs, even those wide outs who nornally excell against man were slow yesterday.

 

So tell me, 6 drops, 15 purpose throw aways, how is that on Joe & his stats?...

 

How is it Joe's fault when they clearly have the defensive front tired, they stop running the ball?

 

This is a coaching issue, both Harbs for not having the players ready, and Marty for poor play calling. Stats have little to do with this one.

[papasmurfbell]

But he started to collapse before the injuries.

Marty like Trestman and Caldwell would get away from the run and allow Joe to much leash.

With you route combo argument it also gets back to Marty's lack of undeerstanding what he is doing.

If Marty had knuckled down and pushed the run then there would have been less throws and the drops would have been lower.

The part that is Joe's fault is his decision making. He should be more heady and audible to more run plays are tell Marty to run more. But he has an ego of loving to throw and he is just not that guy.

[papasmurfbell]

https://www.pennlive.com/baltimore-ravens/index.ssf/2018/10/john_harbaugh_run-pass_ratio_n.html

 

John Harbaugh: Run-pass ratio not at root of Baltimore Ravens' offensive woes

OWINGS MILLS -- Baltimore Ravens running back Alex Collins carried the ball twice on the first three snaps of Sunday's loss to the Cleveland Browns and gained a combined 28 yards, offering an instant jolt to the offense. But Collins didn't receive his third rushing attempt until Baltimore's third drive in the closing minutes of the first quarter.

As more than 12 minutes rolled off the clock between those carries, gripes spread on social media. And fans continued wondering about the offense's balance throughout a 12-9 overtime defeat in Cleveland.

By the end of the game, the Ravens racked up 25 rushing attempts (Collins had 12) and 57 passes. Considering quarterback Joe Flacco scrambled twice and went down for two sacks, Baltimore's play-calling ratio finished at 61 to 23 in favor of the pass, a disparity that seemed to concern many Baltimore diehards.

Ravens coach John Harbaugh said it's not worth getting worked up over those numbers, though.

"You have to do whatever you can do to move the ball and score points," Harbaugh said. "We've been doing a pretty good job of that until this last game. We just didn't put more points on the board. ... This run-pass balance thing, I don't understand why it's a topic."

In other words, Harbaugh said the offense's efficiency -- not the mix of play calling -- was at the root of Baltimore's ineptitude Sunday. The Ravens didn't score a touchdown against the Browns despite getting into the red zone three time, and they produced just one play of longer than 25 yards.

Baltimore's passing game lacked the explosion it had shown earlier in the season. Michael Crabtree's drops grew into a prominent storyline, but Flacco struggled on the whole, averaging a measly 5.3 yards per throw.

"They covered us pretty good," Harbaugh said of Cleveland's defense. "It was a mix of man coverage, mostly single high, a little bit of two man and two-deep zone coverage, a Tampa-2 style 2. They just did a good job of covering us and we didn't do a great job of executing the passing game. We just have to be more precise, do a better job of putting our guys in position with our game plan and getting guys open, things like that. We need to do better."

Doing better doesn't necessarily mean running the ball more often, according to Harbaugh. And it's not about feeding Collins, either, Harbaugh said.

Ravens backup running back Javorius Allen, known for his receiving and pass-blocking abilities, totaled eight carries Sunday and played 50 snaps. Collins remains the Ravens' most productive ball-carrier but he was on the field for 27 offense plays, nearly half of Allen's number, and finished with 59 yards on his 12 carries.

Harbaugh again shrugged off the notion that the team wasn't using Collins properly and instead pointed out the team plans to continue employing a rotation in the backfield.

"You talk about balance, putting the ball in one guy's hands for 45 plays, I don't know if that's balance," Harbaugh said. "We need to spread the load. You want fresh guys out there playing hard."

The Ravens' offense, which started the season on an historical run of red-zone efficiency and received strong play from Flacco through four games, sputtered in Cleveland. Baltimore hasn't found the end zone since the first quarter of a Week 4 win over the Steelers, and Harbaugh said the team must improve offensively.

It's just that he's not keen on identifying an overarching theme to define the Ravens' woes.

"The big-picture trends just really aren't there," Harbaugh said. "We want to run the ball better. We're working as hard as we can to do it. If the question is, are you working hard at the run game, yeah, we're working real hard at it. We want to be a really good running team, just like we want to be a great passing team and great [at] everything else."

 

 

 

Willful stupidity.

[tsylvester]

Show me one quarterback who has had as many coordinators as Joe has had since they were drafted and how well they did? Now break down the talent around them, I'll wait.

 

I get what you are saying, and agree to a point. However, as I said, it is rare for teams to throw the ball 40+ times a game and win, Consistently.

[tsylvester]

But he started to collapse before the injuries.

 

Marty like Trestman and Caldwell would get away from the run and allow Joe to much leash.

 

With you route combo argument it also gets back to Marty's lack of undeerstanding what he is doing.

 

If Marty had knuckled down and pushed the run then there would have been less throws and the drops would have been lower.

 

The part that is Joe's fault is his decision making. He should be more heady and audible to more run plays are tell Marty to run more. But he has an ego of loving to throw and he is just not that guy.

1) do you know the route progressions?

 

2)do you know the audibles?

B)do you know what Joe is allowed to audible to?

[papasmurfbell]

Show me one quarterback who has had as many coordinators as Joe has had since they were drafted and how well they did? Now break down the talent around them, I'll wait.

 

I get what you are saying, and agree to a point. However, as I said, it is rare for teams to throw the ball 40+ times a game and win, Consistently.

I am done with that excuse. He has had Marty for a long time now. He had Kubes for a yr and was doing great with him.

 

It really doesn't matter bc Joe is not smart enough eoither way.

[vmax]

Good points and observations everybody.

 

It seems to me that the coaches did not have the players ready, they did not have a good game plan and they didn't make proper and timely adjustments.

Key players like Crabtree and Flacco sucked. There's not a lot that you can do when the QB is having an off day except to run the ball, which Marty refuses to do. They had some great runs to start the game, Marty saw that, and said "that's good enough, now let's throw!"

This loss will come back to haunt them. It seems they have to have 1-2 games like this every year.

[papasmurfbell]

Look at the next 5 games. All tough. I could see 2-3 out of that. Then week 14 and 16 look like Ls.