Flat Tires on Ravens Offense

[vmax]

Marques Brown.... 3 catches .... -2 yards. The Ravens are definitely not using him properly. Maybe all Wink knows is the run game.

Boykin was on the field. 0 catches. Maybe give Jaleel Scott an chance???

J Hill. 3 carries 8 yards. The Ravens better hope Ingram and Edwards stay healthy.

 

[oldno82]

Let's remember how the wind played havoc in the first half with the passing game. The Bills loaded the box then and we couldn't run as usual. Last week it was the monsoon and this week the high wind. Tough to throw for anybody in those conditions.

Hopefully Lamar has better luck in the Jets game. And gets in the groove again.

[papasmurfbell]

Start thinking about how he will perform in January in bad weather.

[oldno82]

That's a scary proposition after the last 2 games performance.

[tsylvester]

I think they just need some time off, a little rest & relaxtion. They will get a short one after this stupid Thursday night game. If they can stay focused and not get cute, Roman, they can lock up the div this week and be one game closer to another mini vaca with a first round bye.....

[Spen]

The weather was rough and the receivers were invisible but the offense still played better than the Bill offense. Tough environment and they scored 24 and won. 

If Andrews catches one of the two that hit his hands, both tough but possible, it's over early.

[OneManCypher]

Having Ingram run the wildcat is not getting cute or doing too much, it is actually very smart. Instead of having Lamar run a power play into the line , you have your #1 back do that job. You can’t on one hand complain about Lamar running too much and potentially getting hurt and then when they do something like the wildcat to relieve him of some hits , complain about that also. The play did not work but the idea is right on point.

[tsylvester]

1 hour ago, OneManCypher said:

Having Ingram run the wildcat is not getting cute or doing too much, it is actually very smart. Instead of having Lamar run a power play into the line , you have your #1 back do that job. You can’t on one hand complain about Lamar running too much and potentially getting hurt and then when they do something like the wildcat to relieve him of some hits , complain about that also. The play did not work but the idea is right on point.

Ok, I'll play catch with you. I was not speaking about Ingram running the wild cat, that was just one play. They ran several other plays that were out of character with RG, and as I said in that thread; I understand wanting to skew tendencies, but you run the risk of breaking the rythem; which happened. Thanks.

 

Lamar was making the wrong reads on a few read options; it happens, it is going to happen, every qb makes the wrong read from time to time.

He also missed open receivers based on coverage, as I said in that thread. Come on over any time and I will pay fpr the NFL all 22 coverage and I will be happy to show you.

 

Again, every qb does from time to time, no big deal. But you sir or madam, want to nit-pick me, no problem, I can play too.

As I said in the game thread as it was happening, based on the coverage the Bills were playing, crossimg routes, flags, post routes would be open and all Lamar had to do was pick a matchup as he THEN did with Hurst. Brown was open also on that play and every play where he ran a deep post. The dbs were in man, playing outside leverage, Brown was easily running away from them and Lamar had time.

 

He is young, no big deal, he trusts his tight ends more right now.

[Spen]

There is always room for improvement but I think Lamar reads the field very well already. He should only get better.

Why wouldn't he trust his tight ends more? They are all quality players who actually do their job and fight for the ball. Not largely invisible like the receivers often tend to be.

 

[tsylvester]

Spen, he sees the field but does he read the coverages? We cannot know the answer for certain so this is a simple discussion, not for arguement sake.

However, evidence such as when he throws into tripple coverage, one play as an example; the deep flag route Andrews ran, where he got hurt, never should have been throw even if Andrews makes a miraculous catch. Why?

Because since they were in 8 man box, zone under, man outside, that means there were two other receivers in man coverage with no safety help. So someone else was a better option.

That is just one play but he does this every game. Last game, against SanFran, the touchdown pass to Andrews, again into double coverage, Andrews leaps and makes a great catch.

However, there was a receiver to the left on a corner route wide open, if thrown on time. I get it, as I said as you concur, he trusts his tightends more right now.

 

But his receivers have not let him down with drops, just with supposedly getting open. Without seeing the all 22 coverage we will not know if they are getting open.

Granted, not every play is there a receiver getting open, this is the NFL, dbs can cover. But to beat man to man and even zone, requires reading, knowing the matchups and most importantly, timing on the throw.

This line has been unreal in pass blocking this year, best ever for this team. Lamar has time but either no one is open in that time or, he is not reading the coverage presnap.

Again, it is ok, he is young and can learn to, but he could not read defenses in college, that was one of the "knocks" against him.

I say all of this not to bash him just to discuss. Too many people think any criticism of him is bashing him and thus we must "hate him". Far from it.

This has been a magical season, as I said to you in the other thread, what ever happens from here out I will not be disappointed.

[OneManCypher]

Boy thats pretty in depth analysis of Lamar, where was this in depth analysis when Flacco was stinking up the joint for three years plus. And there in lies my problem with you. I would come on here and rip Flacco and all you would ever do is either make excuses for him , like blame the line, blame the wrs, blame the O.C. , blame the defense , our mediocrity was never on Flacco. Or just say well who else do we have to play Qb. Now all of sudden , Lamar is the Qb , we are on a nine game win streak , Lamar is the mvp front runner, you can’t just say all of the generic criticisms about him that you use to cause he has proved all of them wrong. So now what you do is pick apart every play where he is not perfect. Never did that to Flacco. Lamar makes every part of the team better, example, the O line is better because the pass rush has to be more disciplined when rushing so they are easier to block. Earlier in the year when the offense was passing too much because of the Miami game, and we were still figuring things out, you never once mentioned how young Lamar was. But now when you are looking to be critical , you throw in his age and say he can learn so your hate does not seem so obvious. Flacco couldn’t read defenses and he was 10 years in, never said anything about that, but you expect so much more from a 22 year old.

[tsylvester]

Hold the phone Pinocchio. I was critical as you use the term of Flacco. My "excuse" as you call it was actually, accurately that the line was terrible in pass blocking. Flacco had less time in the pocket than Lamar has now. Joe is a pocket passer, the team knew it, everyone even you knew it.

Yet year after year the team missed on draft picks of the offensive line. Now we get to the wideouts; the team has missed on them in the draft every year since they came here. So what is a pocket passer going to do with no line and no wide outs? Stink.

 

My "criticism" of Lamar in this thread is to address what this offense needs to do; MOVING FORWARD.

His style of offense will not last; injuries will catch up to him, defenses are already starting to figure this offense out.

Thus my statement of; deep passing game needs to happen in order to open up the 8, 9 in a box, zone under man over coverages the defenses are doing now.

I simply asked a question; is Lamar seeing the reads or just looking for an open man. Again, without the all 22 film we may not know. But, I have seen on regular replay, on several plays each game, as I said on the spot in the game threads, that based on the coverage and the position of the dbs on the outside, when Lamar threw into double, sometimes even tripple coverage, even when he completed those passes, that there was one on one coverage with position, for a better option elsewhere.

You can see further proof when teams play zone, Lamar holds the ball too long and receivers run into the same area on straight crossing routes. Why? Because their routes run that course and the ball should have been thrown sooner.

Is it a big deal? NO, as I said, he is young and can learn. But don't come at me with your hater speech because Lamar could NOT read defensive coverages in college; FACT.

As I said, some people, you included, think that discussing a player's faults means we hate the player. This is not thie board that has that issue. Here, we discuss all aspects of a player, good & bad.

 

[Spen]

6 hours ago, tsylvester said:

As I said, some people, you included, think that discussing a player's faults means we hate the player. This is not thie board that has that issue. Here, we discuss all aspects of a player, good & bad.

 

I do not think that because of that, even though I think you have been very critical of Lamar after some very good games.

What makes me think you don't like him much is you excused his opponents not great play because you thought weather was a factor, Yet in the same game you dismissed weather as being a factor for Lamar's not great play. That's practically announcing a bias.

Also often dropped passes = Lamar's fault. Completed passes = great catches,

But hey, no crime in not liking a player.

[vmax]

One of Lamar's assets is reading defenses and the field. He's fantastically quick at that.

I've heard him on the radio, at the podium, rattle off what look the defense gave him when asked about a specific play. He knows his shit and will only get better with experience.

I said it once and I'll say it again: On some of his passes he looked like Johhny U. Same set, stance, posture and release. He will perfect that. When injuries catch up to him, I can see him morphing into a great pocket passer. Shit...he's great now. But he will need the receivers to be great as far as the yardage. He has TE's right now. No true #1 or #2 wide outs....and he's leading every QB in the NFL. All of them. Barely over 16 games of experience. That's shocking.

The Ghost of Louisville...

I put this thread up because one of the things Lamar and this offense needs is WR's who can get open. Eric will get them. Lamar will master wet footballs and wind.

He's human like the rest of us. He has his strengths and weaknesses, yet he's incredibly gifted, intelligent, humble, a leader, a catalizer....and only 22 years old.

 

[tsylvester]

56 minutes ago, Spen said:

I do not think that because of that, even though I think you have been very critical of Lamar after some very good games.

What makes me think you don't like him much is you excused his opponents not great play because you thought weather was a factor, Yet in the same game you dismissed weather as being a factor for Lamar's not great play. That's practically announcing a bias.

Also often dropped passes = Lamar's fault. Completed passes = great catches,

But hey, no crime in not liking a player.

Wow, really? I did not excuse the opponents poor play with westher. Thr good thing about message boards is we can go back and see not only exactly waht I said, but the context in which I said-said words. I simply asked a question about the Ravens offensive line and how well they were keeping Lamar clean and wondered if the wet field played a role in helping keep the best pass rush in the league at bey.

I aslo later praised and continue, key, to praise this line, iI have even said, we can quote that as well, that this is the best line, pass blocking, that this franchise has ever had...

 

As for not giving Lamar room for error on throws in the rain, we should check the game feed again.

As for receivers dropping passes, please, we can go to stat sheets for my proof rather than your opnion of what is a drop and what is not. An example from one your and mine discussions in a game thread; Andrews, leaping as high as he can, turning all the way around, falling backward between TWO defenders and having one of the defenders come down with the ball. That is not a drop, not pick put on Andrews, that is another example of a pass that should not have been thrown and is on the qb, Lamar.

Yet you disagree and think it should have been caught.

Lamar is a great player right now, no debate, but if he has to throw more than 30 times to win a game we do not know if he can do that; proof that the coaches don't think so either is the system they built for him and that they run.

I am.critical in games too, not of Lamar, of the entire team and they are 11-2 !

It's called love of the team, of the game. Of seeing that improvements need to be made, for lomg term success, just as Max said to start the thread. It's not hate, you want hate for a player, their play, go back and look how I talked about CJ Mosely, or most any Bama/Ozzy pick most recently the former punt returner...

 

Or my current fav to hate on Hill who falls over when the wind blows 1 mph.....

 

[Spen]

1 hour ago, tsylvester said:

Wow, really? I did not excuse the opponents poor play with westher. Thr good thing about message boards is we can go back and see not only exactly waht I said, but the context in which I said-said words. I simply asked a question about the Ravens offensive line and how well they were keeping Lamar clean and wondered if the wet field played a role in helping keep the best pass rush in the league at bey.

I aslo later praised and continue, key, to praise this line, iI have even said, we can quote that as well, that this is the best line, pass blocking, that this franchise has ever had...

 

As for not giving Lamar room for error on throws in the rain, we should check the game feed again.

As for receivers dropping passes, please, we can go to stat sheets for my proof rather than your opnion of what is a drop and what is not. An example from one your and mine discussions in a game thread; Andrews, leaping as high as he can, turning all the way around, falling backward between TWO defenders and having one of the defenders come down with the ball. That is not a drop, not pick put on Andrews, that is another example of a pass that should not have been thrown and is on the qb, Lamar.

Yet you disagree and think it should have been caught.

Lamar is a great player right now, no debate, but if he has to throw more than 30 times to win a game we do not know if he can do that; proof that the coaches don't think so either is the system they built for him and that they run.

I am.critical in games too, not of Lamar, of the entire team and they are 11-2 !

It's called love of the team, of the game. Of seeing that improvements need to be made, for lomg term success, just as Max said to start the thread. It's not hate, you want hate for a player, their play, go back and look how I talked about CJ Mosely, or most any Bama/Ozzy pick most recently the former punt returner...

 

Or my current fav to hate on Hill who falls over when the wind blows 1 mph.....

 

I don't want hate for anyone nor am I bothered but it. To me it just seems clear you're not a big fan of Lamar. 

And yes, if one wanted one could go back and see where you stated the weather affected Russell Wilson but wouldn't grant the same for Lamar. Blatant obvious bias, why argue that? 

 

[Spen]

1 hour ago, vmax said:

One of Lamar's assets is reading defenses and the field. He's fantastically quick at that.

I've heard him on the radio, at the podium, rattle off what look the defense gave him when asked about a specific play. He knows his shit and will only get better with experience.

I said it once and I'll say it again: On some of his passes he looked like Johhny U. Same set, stance, posture and release. He will perfect that. When injuries catch up to him, I can see him morphing into a great pocket passer. Shit...he's great now. But he will need the receivers to be great as far as the yardage. He has TE's right now. No true #1 or #2 wide outs....and he's leading every QB in the NFL. All of them. Barely over 16 games of experience. That's shocking.

The Ghost of Louisville...

I put this thread up because one of the things Lamar and this offense needs is WR's who can get open. Eric will get them. Lamar will master wet footballs and wind.

He's human like the rest of us. He has his strengths and weaknesses, yet he's incredibly gifted, intelligent, humble, a leader, a catalizer....and only 22 years old.

 

I've been very pleasantly surprised with the way Lamar reads the field so early in his career. Gives me more confidence that he can have a long career even if as he ages some speed and quickness goes. 

At best right now I think we have a group of wideouts that are at best #3s on other teams. I'm confident Brown will get better, but the rest? Eh, hope is all I have.

[tsylvester]

29 minutes ago, Spen said:

I don't want hate for anyone nor am I bothered but it. To me it just seems clear you're not a big fan of Lamar. 

And yes, if one wanted one could go back and see where you stated the weather affected Russell Wilson but wouldn't grant the same for Lamar. Blatant obvious bias, why argue that? 

 

Ok Spen, so the next time you are anything but over joyed by the way a player makes a mistake, it must me you want that player to fail because you don't like that player. Sound fair? Didn't think so.

 

I have never said I hope nor implied that Lamar nor any other player fail nor disliked them before they had time to show if they could play in this league.

Have I said I think a player will be a bust? Yep, just like every other person who has ever talked about players in the history of fandom.

Not once, however, have I said Lamar would not be a good quarterback. Just because I discuss what he needs to work on or ask a question as to wonder why he doesn't see the one on one coverage on the outside and chose to throw there, does not mean nor should anyone infer my dislike for him. That is on you or anyone else, your mistake.

Did I rant about him having issues throwing in the rain or wind? In fact, I went so far to say that the win should not bother him because of his ball flight and strong arm. Thanks, have a good night.

[Spen]

7 minutes ago, tsylvester said:

Ok Spen, so the next time you are anything but over joyed by the way a player makes a mistake, it must me you want that player to fail because you don't like that player. Sound fair? Didn't think so.

 

I have never said I hope nor implied that Lamar nor any other player fail nor disliked them before they had time to show if they could play in this league.

Have I said I think a player will be a bust? Yep, just like every other person who has ever talked about players in the history of fandom.

Not once, however, have I said Lamar would not be a good quarterback. Just because I discuss what he needs to work on or ask a question as to wonder why he doesn't see the one on one coverage on the outside and chose to throw there, does not mean nor should anyone infer my dislike for him. That is on you or anyone else, your mistake.

Did I rant about him having issues throwing in the rain or wind? In fact, I went so far to say that the win should not bother him because of his ball flight and strong arm. Thanks, have a good night.

It's not a big deal. I'm just saying I thought you were a bit over critical of Lamar in the past. Then when you gave Russell Wilson a "Mulligan" for his play in bad weather but said Lamar was "wild and not good" in the same game and not giving him any leeway because of the weather that's what made me think you're not a fan of his. It's pretty convincing to me. 

I never said you wanted anyone to fail. 

Hey, have a great night! 

[oldno82]

6 hours ago, Spen said:

I've been very pleasantly surprised with the way Lamar reads the field so early in his career. Gives me more confidence that he can have a long career even if as he ages some speed and quickness goes. 

At best right now I think we have a group of wideouts that are at best #3s on other teams. I'm confident Brown will get better, but the rest? Eh, hope is all I have.

That is how I see it too, Spen. He reads coverages well after just 1 1/2 years of play at the age of 22. I've been impressed with his passing this year as well as his running ability and, as I have said in the past and as Max alluded to, his leadership. Shoot, the whole team and his head coach love the guy.

[cravnravn]

Absolutely love the improvement of Lamar from last year to this season. You can see the maturity.Last year he missed a few series because he was running reckless and taking shots. This season he is not. And this shit  with teams taking shots at his legs and knees any other qb  with time in the league you know flags would be flying. That'll come with time .