colincac Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Brian McFarland @RavensSalaryCapBased on early reports, it appears that Suggs' new deal is for a total of 5 years and $37M. New money is $29.2M. Signing bonus of $12M. Brian McFarland @RavensSalaryCapSuggs' new 2014 Cap # is $7.8M, thereby creating $4.6M in new Cap space. His 2015 Cap number will be $6.6M ($4M base salary). Andrew Brandt @adbrandtSuggs was to make $7.8M this year. Will now make $12M; $11M signing bonus + $1M salary. $4M 2015 salary guaranteed. $16M/2 yrs. Overall, I'm pretty happy with that. Essentially $7.5 Million a year over the 4 year extension. I'd argue that is slightly over what I would've wanted to pay him, but probably what we had to do in order to lower the cap number this year. Let's hope he can return to form. Next up: Haloti. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsylvester Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 five years? major, major mistake by the Ravens. Not sure Suggs would have gone for a 2 year extension, but the money would have been better for the Ravens and less risk. This is crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 five years? major, major mistake by the Ravens. Not sure Suggs would have gone for a 2 year extension, but the money would have been better for the Ravens and less risk. This is crazy.Haven't seen the breakdown of dollars per year but based on the signing bonus and the low cap numbers in 2014 & 2015 this is essentially a two/three year deal. After two years the dead money will be about $7.2M, which is the same as if he cut him this year. After three years the dead money drops to about $4.8M. Essentially this move will put us in the same situation with Suggs in two years. At that point will probably cut him and absorb the same amount of dead money that we'd take this year. Really just pushing back the dead money betting on two to three more good years of Suggs. I don't have a problem with doing these sort of deals with one year left on a current deal. My problem is if we did this for Suggs why didn't we do this for Boldin last year? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsylvester Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Haven't seen the breakdown of dollars per year but based on the signing bonus and the low cap numbers in 2014 & 2015 this is essentially a two/three year deal. After two years the dead money will be about $7.2M, which is the same as if he cut him this year. After three years the dead money drops to about $4.8M. Essentially this move will put us in the same situation with Suggs in two years. At that point will probably cut him and absorb the same amount of dead money that we'd take this year. Really just pushing back the dead money betting on two to three more good years of Suggs. I don't have a problem with doing these sort of deals with one year left on a current deal. My problem is if we did this for Suggs why didn't we do this for Boldin last year? I agree, I know Boldin didn't want to take less money, but there were many ways they could have kept him and kept his cap hit low. Come on, it was only a 3 mil cap hit, a good money man can make that go away. As for Suggs, bad move, take the hit now or go with a shorter deal, which would have given him more money up front and reduced the cap hit a little more. History says he will not play all 16 games each of the next 3 years and beyond and if he keeps disappearing in the 2nd half of seasons, it is a complete waste of money. I hope I am wrong and he can be consitant, time will tell... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I agree, I know Boldin didn't want to take less money, but there were many ways they could have kept him and kept his cap hit low. Come on, it was only a 3 mil cap hit, a good money man can make that go away. As for Suggs, bad move, take the hit now or go with a shorter deal, which would have given him more money up front and reduced the cap hit a little more. History says he will not play all 16 games each of the next 3 years and beyond and if he keeps disappearing in the 2nd half of seasons, it is a complete waste of money. I hope I am wrong and he can be consitant, time will tell...My hope with Suggs is something Preston suggested, put a weight clause in his contract. Suggs came out this year looking like the hulk and was a serious D-MVP contender the first half of the season. The second half of the season Suggs got more and more sluggish and had noticeably put on weight. Maybe Ozzie gave Suggs this extension because he realized he messed up on Boldin. Unlike Suggs, Boldin was coming off one of the best stretches of his career and showed this year he is still an elite player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldno82 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Better than the cap situation they had before but not as good as I was hoping. Not sure Terrell has 'it' anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colincac Posted February 17, 2014 Author Share Posted February 17, 2014 I'm very surprised at the lack of trust in Suggs' in this thread. I know he's aging and had a rough 2nd half of the year but the guy still has 'it' in my opinion and while this deal doesn't look like amazing from our side, that's because it's hard to get a former DPOY on the cheap. I have faith Suggs will play this deal out without us having to cut him. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmax Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 OK...that's the first domino.He learned from watching Ray. He's getting better money here than he would on the market and he wants to retire as a Raven. He's thinking of his legacy and he's thinking smart...and selflessly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeshopper Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Talk about first world problems! A$37 million total of 5 years and $37M with a $12 million signing bonus is considered selfless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmax Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Talk about first world problems! A$37 million total of 5 years and $37M with a $12 million signing bonus is considered selfless. Haha! Yea...I might have overdone it just a little bit! A "more to the point comment" is that most NFL stars, not all, refuse to do what Suggs did. Not all of the big names are willing to do it. You only hear about Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger, Suggs, the ones who work things out. Plenty of others don't. They want their money now, all of it. http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Eisenberg-Only-Big-Names-Volunteer-To-Clear-Cap-Space/040e7de2-04ba-4266-a6ea-6a0e32bb1f01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 This is a really stupid contract. Enjoy being locked in to the end of the planet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geronimo Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I'm very surprised at the lack of trust in Suggs' in this thread. I know he's aging and had a rough 2nd half of the year but the guy still has 'it' in my opinion and while this deal doesn't look like amazing from our side, that's because it's hard to get a former DPOY on the cheap. I have faith Suggs will play this deal out without us having to cut him. I'm not surprised at the lack of trust in Suggz, i haven't been around here long but i've been around here long enough to know how things work. Certain players will get the benefit of the doubt and will have excuses made for them when there play isn't exactly stellar, while others will is dragged through the coals and examined with a fine tooth comb to find his imperfections, and it's real easy to determine who is in what category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Money Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I'm very surprised at the lack of trust in Suggs' in this thread. I know he's aging and had a rough 2nd half of the year but the guy still has 'it' in my opinion and while this deal doesn't look like amazing from our side, that's because it's hard to get a former DPOY on the cheap. I have faith Suggs will play this deal out without us having to cut him. Wow. You think Suggs has five more years in him? Personally, I'll be happy with two as long as they are productive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 This is a really stupid contract. Enjoy being locked in to the end of the planet.How is it stupid? Two years and we can get out of the contract with the same ramifications as if we cut him today. Try to find another pass rusher we could get for four-years at $12M guaranteed. We could look to the draft, but then we could end up with another Upshaw or Kindle. This is a relatively safe and cheap option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Money Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 How is it stupid? Two years and we can get out of the contract with the same ramifications as if we cut him today. Try to find another pass rusher we could get for four-years at $12M guaranteed. We could look to the draft, but then we could end up with another Upshaw or Kindle. This is a relatively safe and cheap option. Where are these numbers coming from? He's guaranteed $16m and if he's here 4 years, add in another $8.6m in base salary. I do get your point about the dead money being the same after two years as it would be if we had released him now. Basically if we get 2 productive years out of him, it's a win. If we get a repeat of 2012/2013 though, it was a bad move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Where are these numbers coming from? He's guaranteed $16m and if he's here 4 years, add in another $8.6m in base salary. I do get your point about the dead money being the same after two years as it would be if we had released him now. Basically if we get 2 productive years out of him, it's a win. If we get a repeat of 2012/2013 though, it was a bad move. Yes you are correct on those numbers. Yes that is exactly how I see it, basically a two year deal that is hinging on Suggs rebounding. IMO it's unrealistic to think he'll be as good as he was first half of 2013, but it's also unlikely he'll be as bad as he was second half of 2013. If he can average out somewhere in between I think it will be a good deal for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravnravn Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 This is a really stupid contract. Enjoy being locked in to the end of the planet. It's not a bad deal at all. 1 it carries the same number 2 year s from now as it does today if we cut him. Secondly there's not a better lb/de coming out in the draft that make opponents game plan around them, Suggs presser he said he'd be a raven for life, he'll step aside if his play diminishes in two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsylvester Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 It's not a bad deal at all. 1 it carries the same number 2 year s from now as it does today if we cut him. Secondly there's not a better lb/de coming out in the draft that make opponents game plan around them, Suggs presser he said he'd be a raven for life, he'll step aside if his play diminishes in two years. Teams have not game planned for Suggs in a few years. It wasn't just last year, he can be blocked now with one person. He gets sucked in on almost every run play with dive action. He has reached the point in his career where it seems he can do what he thinks is right, rather than staying with the scheme. It is almost as if he is back to his rookie year when he could not hold the edge on outside runs. Instead not, he just isn't there because he got sucked inside; bad, very very bad for an end. As I said, I hope I am wrong and he can 1) stay within the scheme 2) play consistantly for most if not all of the season, other wise this was a bad deal. Also to keep an eye on is Dummervil, can he stay healthy, be consistant, neither of which he was last season and be the force he is being paid to be? If not, the Ravens will have a white whale at the defensive end position with all the money between the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravnravn Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I believe teams still do plan around Suggs most definitely Pitt does, and we are still the team's to beat in the AFCN. Cinncys season is based upon beating either one of us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robjr83 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 He had 80 tackles and 10 sacks.... not bad for an "off" year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 He had 80 tackles and 10 sacks.... not bad for an "off" year.Almost everything was the first half of the season. The edge of the world could have been midseason. Wow. You think Suggs has five more years in him? Personally, I'll be happy with two as long as they are productive. I don't think he has 2 yrs of production left. How is it stupid? Two years and we can get out of the contract with the same ramifications as if we cut him today. Try to find another pass rusher we could get for four-years at $12M guaranteed. We could look to the draft, but then we could end up with another Upshaw or Kindle. This is a relatively safe and cheap option.SO if he basically sucks for the next 2 seasons it is a good contract? It's not a bad deal at all. 1 it carries the same number 2 year s from now as it does today if we cut him. Secondly there's not a better lb/de coming out in the draft that make opponents game plan around them, Suggs presser he said he'd be a raven for life, he'll step aside if his play diminishes in two years.So how does that save them cap space? His bonus still counts against the cap after he retires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Money Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 It boils down to this for me...I'm just not a big fan of sinking significant money into players on the downside of their careers. The Ravens typically aren't big fans either. They have certainly shown they are willing to part ways with popular veterans the last few years. Hell...they even let Ray test the market before he ultimately signed his last deal with us. They have always maintained that it's better to get rid of a player a year too soon than a year too late. They obviously believe in Suggs. Whether this was a good move for them remains to be seen. If Suggs gives them two more productive seasons, it's a win for me. It is going to be very interesting to see what they do with Webb and Ngata next year. Webb counts $11m and Ngata counts $16m against the cap. Unless Webb rebounds and has a great year, they will ask him to restructure. If he refuses, they will cut him and save $4m. Ngata will need to be restructured regardless of his year. They would save $8.5m against the cap by cutting him. They are stuck with Rice for 2 more years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Except they sink money into guys who are stars. They need to walk away from the star system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsylvester Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 He had 80 tackles and 10 sacks.... not bad for an "off" year. Stats can be and often are misleading. Most of those came in the first half of the season against poor teams. Others came down field when he was beat to the outside. Tackles are much like a qb completion %. If a qb only completes 50% of his passes in a game, most who did not watch it will say he stunk. However, if he throws 24 passes and a legit eight passes are in & out of the hands of a receiver, is that truly on the qb? If a defensive lineman makes a tackle 10 yards down field when he should have made it at the LOS, if that really a good thing? I mean the hustle is good, making the stop, sure, but a blown assignment is also very important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsylvester Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 It is going to be very interesting to see what they do with Webb and Ngata next year. Webb counts $11m and Ngata counts $16m against the cap. Unless Webb rebounds and has a great year, they will ask him to restructure. If he refuses, they will cut him and save $4m. Ngata will need to be restructured regardless of his year. They would save $8.5m against the cap by cutting him. They are stuck with Rice for 2 more years. Webb they will likely keep, corners are hard to find and he both covers & tackles well, not too mention,a great blitzer; worth the money. Ngata, differetn story. His injuries have occurred each of the past two seaons, the types that A) don't heal quickly and B) take away his strength & power... That is what made him great. Now, he is being driven off the LOS five, eight yards down field. Or, moved out of the way easier. He either should take a sweet deal or let him hit the bricks. Big DT are pretty easy to find and the Ravens have several waiting in the wings..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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