No tag for Monroe

[cravnravn]

YEp. You have to think into the future.

Pops the future is now, careers are too short to try and plan 5 years down the road

[papasmurfbell]

You kind of have to bg, this is not new. This stems back to when the skids over paid for Wilkerson, it's the sign of today. There are 31 and 1/2 nfl teams fans that think we overpaid Joe. It is what it is. Bottom figure would be 10% higher then what Long got from the Rams. Then negotiate from there.

Don't follow the morons into the rat hole. If a team was willing to over pay for Joe than take their picks too.

 

Pops the future is now, careers are too short to try and plan 5 years down the road

It does not take 5 yrs to do this. Tops should be 3. Look how fast Sea went from a complete joke to SB winner. They did it basically all from the draft.

[RavenMad]

Don't follow the morons into the rat hole. If a team was willing to over pay for Joe than take their picks too.

 

It does not take 5 yrs to do this. Tops should be 3. Look how fast Sea went from a complete joke to SB winner. They did it basically all from the draft.

 

No they didn't. In Pete Carroll's first year they had over 200 transactions including cutting and signing free agents. The Seahawks got turned around because they had a plan for what they wanted in each position and drafted and signed players to fit their system. Sometimes that meant spending big on free agents eg. Sidney Rice. Sometimes that meant trading picks for impact players eg. Percy Harvin. Sometimes that meant drafting players ahead of where everyone expected them to go eg. Bruce Irvin because they fit that scheme and sometimes it meant identifying players who were underappreciated at their college position and switching them to a new position and getting an all star eg. Richard Sherman again because they saw something that fit their scheme.

 

So no they didn't do it basically from the draft. They did it from all options open to them.

[RavenousBG]

You kind of have to bg, this is not new. This stems back to when the skids over paid for Wilkerson, it's the sign of today. There are 31 and 1/2 nfl teams fans that think we overpaid Joe. It is what it is. Bottom figure would be 10% higher then what Long got from the Rams. Then negotiate from there.

Then we should overpay to get J Byrd because we have a huge hole at safety . We should overpay for a WR also because we could use one. It's not that I'm against paying a little extra but you try to limit it. And I might be wrong but this guy seems to think he's a 10 mil guy. Really? You were on the Jags!! And he's a good player but for 9 or 10 mill a year I want someone who makes a serious difference, moves the scale by 2 or 3 wins. I just don't see that here. We could get JO at 26 yrs old and next season we'd have 4 more wins. Easy. He's a 10 mil + guy. We get Monroe and there's still a lot of work to do. A lot. I think you're overpaying him at 8.5 mil a yr but I'm okay with that. I would be a little disappointed if he got 9 and pissed if he got 9.5 or more.

[Money]

Everyone needs to rethink what constitutes "overpaid". There are people on this board that are approaching things like $320 million wasn't just added to the league-wide available cap and like $545 million won't be added to that by 2016.

[RavenousBG]

Right the cap went up, but if we just pay the guys we have more money instead of bringing in better guys, what do we have? The same team and we are up against the cap. So there is overpaying because the right guys deserve big money to make us better and a good guy shouldn't get overpaid or we can't get those right guys. That's my deal. Overpay and later you can't improve your team the way you need to. The price is wrong if Monroe expects 10 per. But if there's a guy that is a big time game changer, pony up! I mean we won a SB with Oher but I know than no one on this board would want to pay him 8.5 a yr to stay. We won with him tho. 5 yrs of winning. Monroe was solid but we sure didn't win enough with him. So I'm at 8.5 tops and 9 but I'd be a little disappointed. That's more than fair.

[RavenousBG]

Right the cap went up, but if we just pay the guys we have more money instead of bringing in better guys, what do we have? The same team and we are up against the cap. So there is overpaying because the right guys deserve big money to make us better and a good guy shouldn't get overpaid or we can't get those right guys. That's my deal. Overpay and later you can't improve your team the way you need to. The price is wrong if Monroe expects 10 per. But if there's a guy that is a big time game changer, pony up! I mean we won a SB with Oher but I know than no one on this board would want to pay him 8.5 a yr to stay. We won with him tho. 5 yrs of winning. Monroe was solid but we sure didn't win enough with him. So I'm at 8.5 tops and 9 but I'd be a little disappointed. That's more than fair.

[papasmurfbell]

Yeah they made moves then but lets looks at the 2013 roster.

 

Akeem Auguste rookie

Cliff Avril FA

Alvin Bailey rookie

Doug Baldwin All 3 yrs Sea

Phil Bates All 2 yrs sea

Travis Beckum FA

Michael Bennett FA

Kenneth Boatright rookie

Michael Bowie rookie

Michael Brooks rookie

Brandon Browner all 3 yrs Sea

James Carpenter All 3 yrs Sea

Kam Chancellor All 3 yrs Sea

Dewayne Cherrington rookie

Arceto Clark Rookie

Chris Clemons FA

Derrick Coleman All 2 yrs Sea

B.J. Daniels rookie

Kellen Davis FA

Heath Farwell FA

Chandler Fenner 1 yr sea

Breno Giacomini picked up in his 2nd yr 3 yrs with sea

Clint Gresham All 4 yrs sea

Percy Harvin trade

Caylin Hauptmann rookie

Steven Hauschka fa

Cooper Helfet 2 yrs Sea

Jordan Hill rookie

Bruce Irvin 2 yrs sea

Tarvaris Jackson FA

Lemuel Jeanpierre All 4 yrs sea

Jeron Johnson all 3 yrs sea

Jermaine Kearse 2 yrs sea

Jeremy Lane 2 yrs sea

Ricardo Lockette 2 yrs sea

Marshawn Lynch trade

Chris Maragos picked up in his 2nd yr 3 with Sea

Chris Matthews picked up from the CFL

Byron Maxwell all 3 yrs sea

Benson Mayowa rookie

Anthony McCoy all 3 yrs sea

Tony McDaniel fa

Clinton McDonald all 5 yrs sea

Paul McQuistan fa

Brandon Mebane all 7 seasons sea

Christine Michael rookie

Zach Miller fa

Mike Morgan all 3 yrs sea

Russell Okung all 4 yrs sea

Terrance Parks 1 yr sea

Michael Robinson fa

Jon Ryan fa

O'Brien Schofieldfa

Greg Scruggs 1 yr sea

Deshawn Shead 2 yrs sea

Richard Sherman 3 yrs sea

Tharold Simon rookie

D'Anthony Smith fa

Jared Smith rookie

Malcolm Smith all 3 yrs Sea

J.R. Sweezy 2 yrs sea

Golden Tate 4 yrs sea

Mike Taylor rookie

Earl Thomas 4 yrs sea

Walter Thurmond 4 yrs sea

Korey Toomer 2 yrs sea

Robert Turbin 2 yrs sea

Max Unger 5 yrs sea

Greg Van Roten fa

Bobby Wagner 2 yrs sea

Bryan Walters 1 yr SD 1 yr Sea

Spencer Ware rookie

Jesse Williams rookie

Luke Willson rookie

Russell Wilson 2 yrs sea

K.J. Wright 3 yrs sea

 

 

So 51 players have been in sea since their rookie yr. 18 of them have come through other teams. Seems to me that team was built via draft.

[papasmurfbell]

Right the cap went up, but if we just pay the guys we have more money instead of bringing in better guys, what do we have? The same team and we are up against the cap. So there is overpaying because the right guys deserve big money to make us better and a good guy shouldn't get overpaid or we can't get those right guys. That's my deal. Overpay and later you can't improve your team the way you need to. The price is wrong if Monroe expects 10 per. But if there's a guy that is a big time game changer, pony up! I mean we won a SB with Oher but I know than no one on this board would want to pay him 8.5 a yr to stay. We won with him tho. 5 yrs of winning. Monroe was solid but we sure didn't win enough with him. So I'm at 8.5 tops and 9 but I'd be a little disappointed. That's more than fair.

[tsylvester]

 

No they didn't. In Pete Carroll's first year they had over 200 transactions including cutting and signing free agents. The Seahawks got turned around because they had a plan for what they wanted in each position and drafted and signed players to fit their system. Sometimes that meant spending big on free agents eg. Sidney Rice. Sometimes that meant trading picks for impact players eg. Percy Harvin. Sometimes that meant drafting players ahead of where everyone expected them to go eg. Bruce Irvin because they fit that scheme and sometimes it meant identifying players who were underappreciated at their college position and switching them to a new position and getting an all star eg. Richard Sherman again because they saw something that fit their scheme.

 

So no they didn't do it basically from the draft. They did it from all options open to them.

 

 

 

 

Too true, they were very fortunate so far. However, the cap will catch up with them too, all those good young players wanting the money now that they have a ring. Once players get a ring, it is all about the money...... Then we will see just how good they are at drafting and free agent signings. Harvin will cost them, he can't finish a season. They may be lucky or good, time will tell the true tale.

[papasmurfbell]

 

 

 

 

Too true, they were very fortunate so far. However, the cap will catch up with them too, all those good young players wanting the money now that they have a ring. Once players get a ring, it is all about the money...... Then we will see just how good they are at drafting and free agent signings. Harvin will cost them, he can't finish a season. They may be lucky or good, time will tell the true tale.

That is why I have said they need to let the trading begin. Sell off parts as they are assessed as expendable and not worth signing big. Get lots of picks and keep at the mix you are at now.

[tsylvester]

Everyone needs to rethink what constitutes "overpaid". There are people on this board that are approaching things like $320 million wasn't just added to the league-wide available cap and like $545 million won't be added to that by 2016.

 

 

Aside from this year, the otehr years are expected cap numbers. Even then, you don't count on the cap growing when you make the deal, you fbase the deals on the current cap number. Other wise, you end up like the Skins, Raiders, even Cowboys. Though, some of them tried to pull a fast one by pushing the money into the uncapped year, quite the no-no.... Why over pay for a tackle when you can have the same, if not better player cheaper from free agency or, with good coaching and scouting in the draft.

 

Ozzy has never put much stock in the line, aside from JO and Mule. He over paid for Flynn letting a better center walk down to Carolina. People think Gino is bad right now, no power, Flynn was just as bad. Oz kept JO, shoot, who wouldn't keep a HOF player?

 

Aside from him, Ozzie thinks, based on how he signs players, a line is plug & play. It gets over looked by most people because now we have 2 Super Bowl wins and Ozzie has drafted 3, maybe 4 HOF players. However, we are seeing now, more & more that either the scouts are bad or Ozzie is losing it as more drafted players just are not panning out.

 

I have never beena big fan of the Dick Cass, they money team of the Ravens, they are usually up against the cap and almost in panic mode this time of year, forced to extend contracts of againg players just to make cap room.

 

They were bailed out once, during the purge when the two new teams were brought in..... The Suggs deal may come back to bite the team, time will tell...

[papasmurfbell]

 

Ozzy has never put much stock in the line, aside from JO and Mule. He over paid for Flynn letting a better center walk down to Carolina. People think Gino is bad right now, no power, Flynn was just as bad. Oz kept JO, shoot, who wouldn't keep a HOF player?

 

2 better centers.

[RavenousBG]

I think the Suggs deal is fine. Ozzie doesn't totally ignore the line but we have let guys walk. But he's drafted Oher and Grubbs in the first round. So Ozzie may not see it as top priority but he will address it if he thinks the player is there. The 3rd and 4th rounders outside of KO leave something to be desired. But Ozzie hit on KO. Is Ozzie slipping?i don't know, I'm still in wait and see mode. This is a high pick this yr and it's an important offseason going forward. The draft is stocked. Ozzie hit on Torrey and missed on Sergio so he's been a little erratic. But l will wait before I say he's slipping

[papasmurfbell]

This new Suggs deal is going to be a disaster I think.

[Money]

This new Suggs deal is going to be a disaster I think.

 

I didn't like it either. I think it was a knee jerk reaction to the perceived backlash for parting with "fan favorite" Boldin. Coming off an 8-8 season with no playoffs...they didn't want to part ways with another "fan favorite". I wished they chose differently. I now hope Suggs proves me very wrong.

[papasmurfbell]

I don't think he will. He is an old 31 I think. The legs and arms are going. They will have kicked a poor cap problem down the road and made it worse than.

[oldno82]

7.5 mil is MY number and it would be around my starting point. It's how I would negotiate to keep from going too high. I think his true value is 7.5 but if a guy hits the market you have to pay a little more. If Ozzie could get him for 8 or 8.5 then it would be overpaying to me but I wouldn't be upset. 9 and up would really bother me because he's just not on that level to me. But 7.5 is my assessment. At this point he's probably going to test the market and you're right , we won't get him for 7.5 per. But 8.5 is reasonable overpay to me.

totally agree. But I think he'll get 10 from some other stupid team.

[papasmurfbell]

Then let them burn up their cap.

[Money]

Right the cap went up, but if we just pay the guys we have more money instead of bringing in better guys, what do we have? The same team and we are up against the cap. So there is overpaying because the right guys deserve big money to make us better and a good guy shouldn't get overpaid or we can't get those right guys. That's my deal. Overpay and later you can't improve your team the way you need to. The price is wrong if Monroe expects 10 per. But if there's a guy that is a big time game changer, pony up! I mean we won a SB with Oher but I know than no one on this board would want to pay him 8.5 a yr to stay. We won with him tho. 5 yrs of winning. Monroe was solid but we sure didn't win enough with him. So I'm at 8.5 tops and 9 but I'd be a little disappointed. That's more than fair.

 

Don't agree here. That's like saying we didn't win enough with Daryl Smith so we shouldn't pay what it's going to take to bring him back. Monroe was far and away our best OL'man. He's better than anything else out there. Albert and Veldheer could very well get around $9m per year themselves. It's fine if you don't want to pay that, but what is your plan? Is it to give away the farm to move up and get one of the studs in the draft? Is it Oher? Is it Mckinnie?

 

Like I said before, some people need to re-calibrate their "overpaid" meter. $320 million just got dumped into the pool. An additional $545 million will be dumped in by 2016.

[RavenousBG]

This new Suggs deal is going to be a disaster I think.

You think Suggs is about done then? I disagree but it's an understandable thought considering last yrs second half after starting so hot.

[RavenousBG]

Then let them burn up their cap.

 

Exactly

[RavenousBG]

 

Don't agree here. That's like saying we didn't win enough with Daryl Smith so we shouldn't pay what it's going to take to bring him back. Monroe was far and away our best OL'man. He's better than anything else out there. Albert and Veldheer could very well get around $9m per year themselves. It's fine if you don't want to pay that, but what is your plan? Is it to give away the farm to move up and get one of the studs in the draft? Is it Oher? Is it Mckinnie?

 

Like I said before, some people need to re-calibrate their "overpaid" meter. $320 million just got dumped into the pool. An additional $545 million will be dumped in by 2016.

First, D Smith is a different deal altogether. He's not asking to murder our cap and line his pockets. He was part of the reason the defense improved. His potential cap number is going to be workable.

Ravens offer what they offer Monroe. Dolphins give him 5 for 50. Let him walk. Sign Oher for the right side at a friendly number, and go after Albert at a lower number, or even Collins. If it falls thru it falls thru and you see what you can get in the draft but no I wouldn't bet the house to move up. In FA get a wide out. You're saying over pay this guy because he's there. Our next JO may be in college right now. Or a guy as good as this guy in the 2nd or 3rd round next year. If we are stuck with him for a few yrs then we are less to find a homegrown LT. The guy was good this yr, not great. KO was injured, Yandall wasn't himself and with a bad center that was physically and mentally overwhelmed, Monroe didn't have to be great to be our best. Keep Monroe at the right price. But if you are telling me is great enough to pay 10 mil a yr then we just disagree. But if we pay him 6 yrs 52 mil, he should be happy to take it. If he morphs into a pro bowler then we got a bargain which is what we wanted from jump.

[Money]

Well...sources are reporting that Oakland offered Veldheer 5 years for $55 million. $23 million guaranteed. He's apparently taking the weekend to think about it. If this is indeed correct, does anyone want to take a guess at the starting point for Monroe? Does anyone think he'll be happy with 6 years for $52 million?

[RavenousBG]

Well...sources are reporting that Oakland offered Veldheer 5 years for $55 million. $23 million guaranteed. He's apparently taking the weekend to think about it. If this is indeed correct, does anyone want to take a guess at the starting point for Monroe? Does anyone think he'll be happy with 6 years for $52 million?

Nope. Do you think we should pay up? I don't think we should but we will see. We are talking 5 yrs 60 mil if he values himself as the best of the class.