Oldschool739 Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 This guy gets cut immediately and black balled from the NFL after a simple domestic violence case, and Aldon Smith has gun charges, bomb threats, etc and still gets to play.....Don't seem like an even playing field to me....How about you ???OCHO OUCHO !!!! Quote
cravnravn Posted April 19, 2014 Posted April 19, 2014 He's not in the nfl, he is trying out with the cfl Quote
tsylvester Posted April 19, 2014 Posted April 19, 2014 black balled? he couldn't cut in NE, known for resurrecting careers. Oh then there is his age and attitude... there is no comparision with Smith. Quote
Oldschool739 Posted April 19, 2014 Author Posted April 19, 2014 black balled? he couldn't cut in NE, known for resurrecting careers. Oh then there is his age and attitude... there is no comparision with Smith.I was comparing the violations and just think CJ got a raw deal as compared.....NE hardly went to him in games and he did not fit their system very well for whatever reason.He was never great but a solid wr in Cincy.......Miami blackballed him for 1 domestic altercation and let the Richie/Martin thing go on right under their nose, and turned the blinded eye....That's the kind of uneven treatment that disturbs me about this league....A guy can kill dogs for sport ,do time for it and come back and be a starting qb, yet another can have a domestic dispute and he is doomed to the dungeon forever....Absurd. Quote
papasmurfbell Posted April 19, 2014 Posted April 19, 2014 He stopped producing so he can't play in the NFL. Quote
Oldschool739 Posted April 19, 2014 Author Posted April 19, 2014 He stopped producing so he can't play in the NFL.Miami signed him to a deal and when he was arrested for domestic violence, his only trouble ever, they immediately cut him and noone will touch him.....You mean to tell me that not one team could have used him even for depth ????I ain't buyin' it.... Quote
papasmurfbell Posted April 19, 2014 Posted April 19, 2014 He stopped playing well in Cincy then sucked in NE. He had what 4 yrs of no production? Quote
Oldschool739 Posted April 19, 2014 Author Posted April 19, 2014 He stopped playing well in Cincy then sucked in NE. He had what 4 yrs of no production?I didn't say he was still starter material but still talented enough to get a job as a backup at least. Quote
dc. Posted April 19, 2014 Posted April 19, 2014 OldSchool, I thought you trusted the process here? The league, the coaches, the scouts... They don't think he can hack it. You think it has to do with his charges? "Just one step in the process" If he could play, someone would sign him... Or its the process faulty? Quote
papasmurfbell Posted April 19, 2014 Posted April 19, 2014 OldSchool, I thought you trusted the process here? The league, the coaches, the scouts... They don't think he can hack it. You think it has to do with his charges? "Just one step in the process" If he could play, someone would sign him... Or its the process faulty?Yeah if a team thought he could give them anything he would be on a roster that afternoon. Quote
vmax Posted April 19, 2014 Posted April 19, 2014 He was a washed up "has-been" before the charges. 1 Quote
Oldschool739 Posted April 19, 2014 Author Posted April 19, 2014 OldSchool, I thought you trusted the process here? The league, the coaches, the scouts... They don't think he can hack it. You think it has to do with his charges? "Just one step in the process" If he could play, someone would sign him... Or its the process faulty?You know very well the process we were speaking of was unknown talent coming out of college, not vet players.And CJ may be washed up as a starter, but I find it hard to believe that he couldn't suffice as a depth player at this point in his career.I may be way off base with this but it looks to me as if he was treated unfairly because of the charges brought against him, that's all.....But let's see how he does in the CFL, that will tell rest of the story.... Quote
papasmurfbell Posted April 19, 2014 Posted April 19, 2014 2011 New England Patriots 15 3 15 276 18.4 53 1 It will now be 3 yrs and he pulled 276 yds with Tom Brady. To me that says you are done. Quote
tsylvester Posted April 19, 2014 Posted April 19, 2014 Miami signed him to a deal and when he was arrested for domestic violence, his only trouble ever, they immediately cut him and noone will touch him.....You mean to tell me that not one team could have used him even for depth ????I ain't buyin' it.... It wasnt just for the altercation. He could not grasp the playbook, the routes, same as in NE where he was often out of position. That is why he didn't get many catches with Tom Brady, he was never where he was suppose to be.... Quote
dc. Posted April 19, 2014 Posted April 19, 2014 All I'm saying is that scouting applies to all levels of players and talents... If there is talent to be had, some team would be squeezing every once of talent out of that lemon. Sure his history is playing a role (one piece of a puzzle) but given how many personality issues exist in this league, my bet is he just can't play. As Papa said, it's been almost three years... He had a pair of resurrection chances and failed both. Quote
Oldschool739 Posted April 19, 2014 Author Posted April 19, 2014 All I'm saying is that scouting applies to all levels of players and talents... If there is talent to be had, some team would be squeezing every once of talent out of that lemon. Sure his history is playing a role (one piece of a puzzle) but given how many personality issues exist in this league, my bet is he just can't play. As Papa said, it's been almost three years... He had a pair of resurrection chances and failed both.Not the same as starting from scratch with a rookie as it is with a seasoned vet.....They already know what he is capable of or not, and how smart he is or not.....All we have to do is see how he does in the CFL this yr.....If he gets cut from there, I will concur that it was because he was washed up, if he does well, it will substantiate my thoughts on the matter..... Quote
papasmurfbell Posted April 19, 2014 Posted April 19, 2014 The NFL banks on potential. They let go of vets all the time for an unproven talent. That is about the cap. Quote
Spen Posted April 19, 2014 Posted April 19, 2014 Doing well in the CFL doesn't exactly mean he would do well in the NFL. Quote
dc. Posted April 19, 2014 Posted April 19, 2014 Seriously, do you not see the hypocrisy there? Scouts are scouts. If they thought he could contribute they'd pay him just like if they thought a rookie could contribute they'd draft him. It's the same process, but with a vet they have MORE info. And they still don't want him. Shouldn't you trust that more? If not, then you're arguing exactly what I did in the other thread: talent evaluation in the NFL - even of vets with years of experience- is flawed by a system that has few checks. You are arguing for confirmation bias right now - that once someone said he couldn't play, everyone went that way and refused to see another outcome. Certainly there are other outcomes and they show that talent evaluation is flawed by flawed data -- in this case you are arguing that flawed data is the weight put into his "character" ... Never discount one part of the process!! Quote
Oldschool739 Posted April 19, 2014 Author Posted April 19, 2014 Seriously, do you not see the hypocrisy there? Scouts are scouts. If they thought he could contribute they'd pay him just like if they thought a rookie could contribute they'd draft him. It's the same process, but with a vet they have MORE info. And they still don't want him. Shouldn't you trust that more? If not, then you're arguing exactly what I did in the other thread: talent evaluation in the NFL - even of vets with years of experience- is flawed by a system that has few checks. You are arguing for confirmation bias right now - that once someone said he couldn't play, everyone went that way and refused to see another outcome. Certainly there are other outcomes and they show that talent evaluation is flawed by flawed data -- in this case you are arguing that flawed data is the weight put into his "character" ... Never discount one part of the process!!Scouts have little to do with bringing in a vet, the GM pretty much handles that whole process, but I never said that scouts don't miss it or that they don't count or anything of the sort.....This isn't even about that man, what's wrong with you, are you suffering from Confirmation Bias or something.....My point in this thread was that I think CJ was treated unfairly by Miami and the powers that be....Nothing to do with the process of bringing rooks out of college.....You said you were done with that when still in the proper thread, is this a relapse or something ?.....Try to stick to the topic....... Quote
Oldschool739 Posted April 20, 2014 Author Posted April 20, 2014 Doing well in the CFL doesn't exactly mean he would do well in the NFL.Granted, but some players do come from there and the likes to the NFL and do alright.....Ricky Williams CFL , Curt Warner in Arena and NFL Europe and I'm sure there's more that came from these basic farm teams for the NFL.I'm not saying CJ is even on their level now but it will give an idea of what he is capable of doing .... Quote
dc. Posted April 20, 2014 Posted April 20, 2014 You don't think scouts play a role in signing vets? Bull beyond bull. Scouts play a role in all parts of the league... How do you think teams gather info on which vets for their schemes? You think the GM has time to personally scout every possible free agent? Who helps teams prep for games week to week? You think coaches compile and break down all that video on their own? Scouting is behind all of it. Vets as much as rookies if not more so. Certainly different scouts, but still scouting. No one has paid CJ because every about who watched him his last two years in the league said the same thing: toast. And yes, probably adding to that were the personal and personality issues, but as you said in the last argument- that's part of scouting! You may well be right - he might have something left. But I'd you think he hasn't been hired and that scouts have little to do with it, you're lost on how pros evaluate talent. BTW - guess who'll be at every CFL game CJ plays? Scouts from almost every team and pro scouting service - for CJ and any other signs of life. Quote
Oldschool739 Posted April 20, 2014 Author Posted April 20, 2014 You don't think scouts play a role in signing vets? Bull beyond bull. Scouts play a role in all parts of the league... How do you think teams gather info on which vets for their schemes? You think the GM has time to personally scout every possible free agent? Who helps teams prep for games week to week? You think coaches compile and break down all that video on their own? Scouting is behind all of it. Vets as much as rookies if not more so. Certainly different scouts, but still scouting. No one has paid CJ because every about who watched him his last two years in the league said the same thing: toast. And yes, probably adding to that were the personal and personality issues, but as you said in the last argument- that's part of scouting! You may well be right - he might have something left. But I'd you think he hasn't been hired and that scouts have little to do with it, you're lost on how pros evaluate talent. BTW - guess who'll be at every CFL game CJ plays? Scouts from almost every team and pro scouting service - for CJ and any other signs of life.Man I wish you would pay attention to what I said before you comment.....How many times do you need this explained ?"I said PRETTY MUCH on their own" not totally on their own, but when a team is bringing in a vet from another NFL team, the GM knows most everything about him already, so the scouts don't have to do as much....And again, this thread is about CJ getting a raw deal....If you have something to contribute to that subject, let's hear it.....But stop with ludicrous stuff about the scouts, that ship has done sailed... Quote
Oldschool739 Posted April 20, 2014 Author Posted April 20, 2014 And I'm saying that's a load of crap.Whatever dude, it's Easter, so I'm on good behavior.....Happy Easter, enjoy your day... Quote
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