papasmurfbell Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 If at the end of 2015 if Joe keeps playing up and down ball I think they should cut him. That is how you cut your losses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravnravn Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Cut what losses?? 7 years in the league and the kid hasn't had a losing season yet. You 2 are ridiculous in wanting to release a player that has the greatest success in this franchises history. His contract is not hurting us, and it won't, it will be restructured next season. And when we're in the playoffs again,what's going to be your gripe then? QB's make money, its about time you two realize that and winning qb's make more money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 He has won a lot of games despite Joe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravnravn Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Smh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rastaman831226 Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 Cut what losses?? 7 years in the league and the kid hasn't had a losing season yet. You 2 are ridiculous in wanting to release a player that has the greatest success in this franchises history. His contract is not hurting us, and it won't, it will be restructured next season. And when we're in the playoffs again,what's going to be your gripe then? QB's make money, its about time you two realize that and winning qb's make more money.Not a losing season, but what's his record since he signed the huge $$$ contract? Not very good. The excuses have increased but the wins against good teams have diminished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rastaman831226 Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 Cut what losses?? 7 years in the league and the kid hasn't had a losing season yet. You 2 are ridiculous in wanting to release a player that has the greatest success in this franchises history. His contract is not hurting us, and it won't, it will be restructured next season. And when we're in the playoffs again,what's going to be your gripe then? QB's make money, its about time you two realize that and winning qb's make more money.Are you crying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubberRaven Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Soooooooooo, we win and it's not all Joe...we lose...it must be Joe...makes sense... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 It depends on the win. I don't throw all his loses in people faces saying he did that like I have his wins thrown in my face. There are games where he has done his part and people like Cam didn't do their part. I have not laid those loses at his feet. But in games where he has done next to nothing and they win anywasy it is looked at as a quality start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubberRaven Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 It depends on the win. I don't throw all his loses in people faces saying he did that like I have his wins thrown in my face. There are games where he has done his part and people like Cam didn't do their part. I have not laid those loses at his feet. But in games where he has done next to nothing and they win anywasy it is looked at as a quality start. Fair Enough. There were times last year too where Joe did enough to win and the D folded in the last few minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 I agree with that. I was all over the D last yr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForceEight Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 I don't think many people have the "win = in spite of Joe, lose = because of Joe" mentality that we had with the many QBs of the past. I think that's honestly what separates him from the others in a logical view, other than the SB win, of course. The issue is that, at the money he is being paid, the ratio of games lost because of him or won in spite of him is way, WAY higher than that of just about every other QB in the same price range, from contracts signed either before or since. That specific fact is what makes him the most expendable of all the franchise-esque QBs throughout the league, given the cap hit increase. That is why the discussion as to whether or not to keep him is at least legitimate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 I don't think many people have the "win = in spite of Joe, lose = because of Joe" mentality that we had with the many QBs of the past. I think that's honestly what separates him from the others in a logical view, other than the SB win, of course. The issue is that, at the money he is being paid, the ratio of games lost because of him or won in spite of him is way, WAY higher than that of just about every other QB in the same price range, from contracts signed either before or since. That specific fact is what makes him the most expendable of all the franchise-esque QBs throughout the league, given the cap hit increase. That is why the discussion as to whether or not to keep him is at least legitimate.I would say Cutler is more expendable but his contract I think is more onerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravnravn Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Not a losing season, but what's his record since he signed the huge $$$ contract? Not very good. The excuses have increased but the wins against good teams have diminished.So you are pinning last years season squarely on joe, I get it now, no matter how many we lost on defense, or offence, or the simple fact that Super Bowl winning teams usually have down years, hell the Seattle qb is on pace to have a horrible season, but somehow or another you would find fault Seattle losing their wr's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldno82 Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 If at the end of 2015 if Joe keeps playing up and down ball I think they should cut him. That is how you cut your losses.Well, crap, that's what I've been saying all along. Rate his performance once the dead money is less than the salary cap hit. What I'm against is doing something like cutting him before then. Right now this is a non-issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Well, crap, that's what I've been saying all along. Rate his performance once the dead money is less than the salary cap hit. What I'm against is doing something like cutting him before then. Right now this is a non-issue.But I go back to not signing him to the deal in the first place. Once you are in you have to make due with what exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc. Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Sorry chief, but at some point you're gonna have to cut the crap and stop trying to put perfume on " S ". Burdensome is a helluva lot closer to not worth it than even tolerable. Like the man said, cut your losses now - it's the smart thing to do.I'll maintain they are not mutually necessary. The article said the contact is going to be hard to handle. That's a separate conversation from whether Joe is worth it or not. If you disagree, fine. I'll maintain that there are lots of very burdensome contracts in the league. Some are with it, some aren't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmax Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 But I go back to not signing him to the deal in the first place. "Why not go back to "what if he had never been born?"Some people here wouldn't have a life!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Because that is a ridiculous argument that the Ravens had no control over. “Lord, grant me the strength to accept the things I cannot change (your being born argument),he courage to change the things I can (to give or not to give a contract), and the wisdom to know the difference.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spen Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Signing Joe after the SB win was absolutely the right thing to do. After the win and the way he played two playoff years in as row he deserved it. Trading a SB MVP qb in the prime of his career could have made a mockery of the franchise for years to come. Even with the sub par years he has had I think it makes the team look bad if they trade him. So I think it was the right thing to do. Even though I never thought or think he is very good I feel that way. If his play doesn't drastically improve or if he doesn't renegotiate at a much lower rate then the team needs to explore other options after next season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rastaman831226 Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 I'll maintain they are not mutually necessary. The article said the contact is going to be hard to handle. That's a separate conversation from whether Joe is worth it or not. If you disagree, fine. I'll maintain that there are lots of very burdensome contracts in the league. Some are with it, some aren't.More perfume - more " S ". Of course there're other onerous contracts in the league but none more burdensome to their respective teams than those listed in the article. Joe Flacco with his contract is there front and center and is by far the most burdensome to the Ravens hands down no if ands or buts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Signing Joe after the SB win was absolutely the right thing to do. After the win and the way he played two playoff years in as row he deserved it. Trading a SB MVP qb in the prime of his career could have made a mockery of the franchise for years to come. Even with the sub par years he has had I think it makes the team look bad if they trade him. So I think it was the right thing to do. Even though I never thought or think he is very good I feel that way. If his play doesn't drastically improve or if he doesn't renegotiate at a much lower rate then the team needs to explore other options after next season.I just can't pay a record contract on a really small sample set. I would have said just that after the trade was executed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldno82 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Signing Joe after the SB win was absolutely the right thing to do. After the win and the way he played two playoff years in as row he deserved it. Trading a SB MVP qb in the prime of his career could have made a mockery of the franchise for years to come. Even with the sub par years he has had I think it makes the team look bad if they trade him. So I think it was the right thing to do. Even though I never thought or think he is very good I feel that way. If his play doesn't drastically improve or if he doesn't renegotiate at a much lower rate then the team needs to explore other options after next season.You're spot on Spen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravnravn Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 You want to compete in this league you better be prepared to shell out some bucks, joes contract is really a non issue as we have been told already that it will be restructured by bisquit himself. For how many years after our first sb win did we not invest heavily into our defense? And it got us nothing. We put all this money into ray lewis and the fact is without a beefy up front line he was average line backer, so we draft Ngata, we pay suggs we way over pay for Webby. Its a vicious cycle, we kept our d intact but then had to release a Jason brown, Todd heap... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravnravn Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 You want to compete in this league you better be prepared to shell out some bucks, joes contract is really a non issue as we have been told already that it will be restructured by bisquit himself. For how many years after our first sb win did we not invest heavily into our defense? And it got us nothing. We put all this money into ray lewis and the fact is without a beefy up front line he was average line backer, so we draft Ngata, we pay suggs we way over pay for Webby. Its a vicious cycle, we kept our d intact but then had to release a Jason brown, Todd heap... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubberRaven Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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