tsylvester

Trap statement as in, gotcha- to get the discussion right where we are again; you blamming the loses on the offense, thinking the defense is the best in the NFL. Read what I said carefully; every game this year anything over the middle to to the weak side (side away from Smith) are wide open, whether the team plays zone or man. Linebackers don't get deep enough drops quick enogh because they always step forward before back on pass plays. So the middle, behind them, is an easy wide open pass. The ends, Suggs & Dumervil, rarely get pressure, often getting blocked by a tight end. Yesterday the pressure came from up the middle, usually because of a blitz. The 2nd half was all 0 litz for the most part something they rarely do because it leads to big plays if they don't get home. Tampa is a terrible team right now, trying to adjust toe Lovey Smith's way of coaching. This defense will be exposed, again, by good passing team with decent offensive lines.

I disagree, he makes the same mistakes every game. As I said, yes, he makes some good plays, a few each game, but other than those stand out plays, he is no where to be found, making tackles down field because he didn't stay gap honest or because he got beat, again, by a tight end....

Sorry crav, smoetimes my mind gets a head of my fingers. I meant to say Leiw's replacement in the form or likeness of Ulracher. My bad.

Dangerous unit? Come, this is a Trap statement, right? Outisde of Jimmy Smith they can't cover and even counting Smith, who I think teams are staying away from not because of talent, but because the middle and right side are wide open. If the front four/five do not get pressure, the seconadry is torched. This is clearly a defense that will only have pressure sacks and not cover sacks.

Every team thus far knew to jam the Raven receivers because they can't get off the jams. I guess Tampa's defensive coordinator decided not to watch past game tapes of the Ravens. Soft zone, off or weak man coverage = a big day for the Raven offense.

Not sure, might be, could be the other team just down the crooked road- Ole Miss

If you want to see a true Ray Lewis type player, and you get a chance, watch the Mississippi State game today, or look for highlights of their middle backer, he is not only outstanding, but huge- Benardrick McKinney, 6'-5" 245. He is quick, has great instincts and covers very well. a junior who I am sure will come out, his forty time will determine where he goes in the draft, but I am sure he plays faster than he will time, as many players do. Lewis played faster than he timed. An outstanding player who I am sure will have a very good career in the NFL.... Look for him today a good test for him and the Bulldogs... Some have him going in the 2nd round, right now, others, a late first. But him with Mosely and watch the defense really improve.... Yes, he needs some coaching at the next level, but what a monster...

Tough call, Ravens don't play well on the road normally. However! The Bucs are middle of the road for rush defense, giving up 120 yards per game, but, only 3.9 per carry. But it gets better, for the Ravens. Through the air the Bucs yield a whopping 71.4 % pass completion, 292 yards per game, 10 tds, 4 pics, all 30th in the league. So the Ravens, averaging 125 per game on the ground, 4.7 per carry (both 12th best), and 247 with 7 tds, 3 pics (13th in the league) should be able to move the ball; key word, should, even if Ose has to miss the game. As with any Qb, their young ladd is streaky, when he is hot, none better, but when he is not, few worse. As a team they average 205 yards per game via the air, with 7 tds, 6 pics(29th). On the ground 4.3 yards per carry, 90 yards per game (24th) .... Baltimore counters with 269 yards per game, 4 tds, 3 pics (none by the secondary), 26th in the league. On the ground, 91 yard sper game, 3.5 yards per carry..... Pretty even there.... Even so, the Ravens, yes, are desperate for a win, looking to get off to a quick start on offense and the Bucs are wounded, more so than the Ravens. I'll take the Ravens and give 6, Marv for 300 clams.........

They did have their timing down before this season, but so far, Torrey has not been consistant with the way & speed with which he runs his routes, that is the issue. Some routes you have to run slower, others you have to get after it. On the slower routes, they usually depend on another receiver to clear out a zone, if run too fast, they are both in the same spot when the ball, on timing, is thrown. People just do not realize, not their fault mind, just what goes into a completion, they just look at the ball think it was a poor pass or worse, look at the stats and not realize why there are incompletions on the stats. & Yes, they do stay late and work together, but practice is not game speed. Time will tell...

I've no doubt he is upset with what went down, with the way the team handled the Rice situation. It is also obvious he is struggling with the new offense, even the anouncers last week mentioned it. The timing between he & Joe is way off, I think I mentioned it last week, it is as if Torrey has lost a gear or can't get to top speed for some reason. Other routes he is running too deep, some too shallow. In Kub's system, as with most, the wr needs to adjust the route based on the coverage, which is best, from his perspective, to discover depending on how the db is playing him. In past year all Torrye had to do was run a 9 route, an occasional out, maybe a deep crossing. These, in those systems, we called plays in the huddle, no reading on his part at all. This year especially, Kubs wants to get him to be more of a complete wide out, acapable of running all the routes so the defense can't key on him and so the double moves will work. They have worked to some extent, mostly leading to a holding call on the db's, one thing I know Torry is upset about, they are holding him more this year than past years and he doesn't know how to break free or doesn't have the strength. But those routes, in this system are db dependant. If the db, for example, is tight and playing inside, Smith is to run an out to a certain depth, off and outside is another depth for that route. He doesn't sell routes all that well, it is pretty easy to tell when he is running an out vs a double move, he rounds them off and drifts back. This will get the timing pass picked off. Running to the improper depth leads to wildly incomplete passes that peole think is on the quarterback. This is why Joe has been waiint to throw passes now, waiting for him or one of the other young receivers to get open before he throws it; he doesn't trust them to throw on timing. With Smith Sr and even with Daniles now, he does throw on timing. Watch for this, you will see it in this week's game. It is a trust issue now, another reason Smith is a little upset, Joe doesn't trust him. Joe even talked about this in a pre game production meeting to start the season, Simms mentioned it...

Depends on the money. The talent coming out of the draft at both positions over the next few years is going to be fabulous. With the onset of the hurry up offense in college, both positions are getting better because of reps, but also because coaching has gotten so much better. Receivers are being taught properly how to catch, with their hands, what position to put their hands in to catch different types of passes. How to find the ball, how to adjust on the run to make the catch. Db's are also being taught better, and also because of the hurry up, they needed to learn the route combinations, the route trees possible for a receiver, pending where said receiver lines up. Normally, coaches don't teach that in college, but now, they have to because of the faster offenses, not being able to interchange their players. They are playing not just zone, but bump & run zone, man, a mixture of man/zone now in college. So these dbs are coming out more prepared. This is one position the Ravens have been able to draft well, yes, but coach well too. Wide out, however, they have never, in their history here, developed a receiver. I was hoping Torrey would be the first, espcially sinc ehe had Bolden to help guide him and now Smith sr. However, something is going on with him, he has regressed in some aspects, not grown in otheres. He stil struggles to find the ball in the air, especially deep down the middle, he "flails" can't keep his speed up and doesn't, as we talked about, know how to properly catch a ball with his hands. I know he worked with Cris Carter in the off season, so maybe he is just "stuck", it happens when we learn too much too fast, players start to think on the feild, rather than react; deadly. He may bounce back and if he does, yes keep him, he will be cheaper than Jimmy penalty Smith and the cap, unless the owners & players agree to a new deal for cap relief in situations like Rice, will be tight trying to squeeze top corner money in with the Suggs and Dumervil deals on the books and even when they re-do Joe's deal, it will save some, not much.

No he is not old man, lay off the medimucil, Ray was a complete player when he came out, cover, tackling, instincts.

You just like to argue, don't you...... I'll throw one of your favorite lines at you. "Do you watch the games?" Maybe we should watch a game together so I can teach you how to watch the game, not just the ball. As I said, and film will back me up, most of his tackles are down field instrad of where they should be; with in 5 yards of the line of scrimmage, as most very good line backers do for their tackles. Yes, he has shown flashes, as I said in my post, made some good plays to "flash", yes, he is a rookie. But I don't just watch the game, I study the game, college & pro. Just as he did, again, exactly as I said in my post, in college, he over runs open gaps that are his responsibility, often. Yes, he recovers at times to make the tackle, down field, but that just adds to my statement. As for not liking him, it has more to do with where he played college, Bama, a majority of their players lately, since Saban took over, are "busts"or near busts, and not just as Raven players, some due to recurrent injuries, others because of a lack of effort. He has the effort, he has talent, I question his durability long term, hope I am wrong, as I said, he has talent, tackling, he just can't cover as of yet. Four years in college, and a full training camp, pre season and five games are clearly not enough to help him learn how to cover.

Yet the games, thus far, would strongly disagree; proof is in the pudding as they say.

I have said this before about Smith, T, and will repeat it now. He doesn't know how to catch, nor can he adjust to the ball in the air. We saw flashes that he was "getting it" last year, the year prior, but nothing consistant. On the pass he dropped earlier, you see it clearly, he had his hands in the wrong position, leading to the ball spinning out of them. On the last one, the "big one" he tried to catch & run, rather than just catching it, either because he wanted to make the big play or he just doesn't understand how to control his body in the air and did not want to turn & jump for it. It has been a sticking point for me since he was drafted, he was the same in college and has not progressed at all. Sure, there is a ctahc or two in a game or two per season, but not enough to be a number 3, let alone a number one. As for the defense, we will have to agree to disagree. As I said, I am not saying they played poorly, just that they could have done more and it was a total team loss.

That is not saying much, to be honest. Most of his tackles are far down feild, he still, as he did in college, over runs holes and has to chase down the back. Sure, he has some flash plays, but so far, he is playing as he did in college and that is not very good. I'll wait and see how he pans out over the entire season and if he can make the next few years. He may win the DPOY, but the rookie talent on defense is not that great since Clownie can't seem to stay healthy.

it is a pretty dance- you need good pressure to help the secondary, but a good secondary to help the pass rush. At tmes it has worked perfectly this way, sadly, most of the game(s) it has not. They need to leave McPhee in there, he is the only one who seem to get consistant pressure, especially up the middle, which will unsettle most all quarterbacks. This will force the qb to either get rid of it quick or move out to one side or the other into the arms of Dumervil or Suggs who might be able to break free from the blockers and make a play.

Right! Pearce had almost 30 yards on 3 carries and they get pass happy after he is stopped for a short gain on his 3rd carry. Was Cavs back calling plays?

The Colts were 7 of 15 on 3rd conversations, had 117 yards rushing, average pass was 6.1 yards down field, five times they got into the red zone, yes turnovers by Jones and Flacco (sacked 4 times not three) were responsible for 2 of those. The Ravens had 12 drives, same as the Colts, granted one of those drives was at the end of the game, turning it over on downs. The other at the end of the half with virtually no time on the clock and they still got 3. Four sacks killed three of those drives, one of them after a long drive on 4th down, stupid play call. I am not saying the defense was to blame, I am saying they share just as much blame. Look at the game thoughts thread you have been ignoring. 20 plays, 70 yards, 9:30 of time in the 2nd quarter. Teams average 10 plays to go 80 yards normally.... Yeah, good defense there, the offense was to blame for that, I mean the game had just basically started! in the 4th, 8 plays, 80 yards for a td in five minutes then another drive 7 plays, 73 yards for 5:27 that resulted in the fumble at the end. One stop on any of those long, time consumming drives gets them off the field, allows the Ravens offense to get some rythem, perhaps. Another total team loss, 2 of them this year an another game they barely won because of inconsistant defense, offense and coaching. This while only five games in and the tougher part of the schedule coming up....

The Defensive line is actually one of the better ones the team has had. They are very active in pass rush, McPhee is outstanding up the middle, even the new guy did good last week. The issue is the ends, the over paid ends in Suggs and Dumervil are not what the team hoed they would be, so teams can just keep a tight end in and neutralize the Suggs & Elvis, allowing a double team up the middle. One way to help a weak secondary is pressure, either up the middle or from the edge. Pees has used the middle blitz numerous time, but usually they have been delayed blitzes, getting there too late. I would like to see them sit Elvis, move McPhee to the end. With his great work ethic and height, it will pu pressure from the edge and make the hot read pass much more difficult. But that is me, I never thought they should have signed Elvis, sack numbers or not in Denver. It was clear Suggs was on the decline when they signed him to the big contract, so why on earth sign another rush end? Especially when McPhee was coming along as well as he was coming along. He can play all three positions along the line and has gotten better each year. It was clear to me, at least, his rookie year that he was going to be very good, based soley on his work ethic and size.

D did the job? Really? They gave a 20 play drive, 20 freaking plays, allowed the Colts to hold the ball for 9 minutes in the 2nd and 10 minutes in two other quarters, yet it was the offense that caused the loss? Good job? Not hardly. Yes, the offense could have done more, but then it is difficult when the defense, once again, can't get off the field.

Champ doesn't have the wheels any more to cover. He might be decent in zone, but the Ravens run a variety of schemes in the 2ndary. Franks, had some good play here & there, but nothing consistant and is prone to being fooled on the double move.... Maybe, maybe with the safeties doing so horrible they plan to, since they do in dime & some nickle packages, have one or two play the slot, maybe they want to move Champ to safety and move a safety to corner full time... Not sure which one since none of them can cover..........

It has to be more than a death of a loved one, it has been going on all season, even from the preseason. I think it might be the sytem, and him upset with him self over not understanding it, not being able to make the proper reads. Prior to this year he had two routes to worry about, go deep, or the nine, or a come back. An ocassional crossing route, deep, but that was rare, so he didn't have the number of reads to make, it was just the play call. I don't know, like you, I like him as well as I know him and hope him the best.

Just curious, has he given up the "dirt" he claimed to have when he dared ESPN to fire him over his antics? Seems to me, this might have just been a publicity stunt.

I am hoping they let Pees go and bring Rex back when he gets canned in NY. Side note, I did not see it on the injury report, but I saw Hurst a bit gimpy all game. If his leg was bothering, maybe that explains his getting mualed in pass protection; his best attribute normally.