Cruel Facts

[oldno82]

This Ravens team are a good team. But not a great one. If the pass rush gets contained, the secondary can't step up. On offense, Flacco is a decent quarterback but not one who can carry the offense and lead it, will it to a win. I'd rank him about 9th in the NFL and I think he's hit his ceiling. He's more a game manager than a game winner.

 

Ed Reed and Ray Lewis look about done. Reed has not had the kind of super season we're used to and Ray isn't the linebacker he once was. These 2 guys are old and it showed last night. The defensive line, for all that we hear about Ngata and Cody, did not dominate a sick offensive line like the Chargers are playing with right now. There was no pressure once the Chargers took Suggs out of the game with clever blocking schemes and a fine performance by Jared Gaither.

 

We have good receivers but I still don't understand why we don't get more separation. I have to figure its the coaching and that needs to change after this season---either Cam goes or we won't get any better.

 

Hate to harp on Flacco because I think he's a decent guy, but he just doesn't have the personality to take the Ravens where they'd like to go. I've defended him a lot over the last 4 years but he's regressed this year and looks like the guy who came out of a Division II school which he is.

 

So, yeah, we're in the playoffs but I'm not excited. Bisciotti needs to insist that Harbaugh institutes more changes on offense. He also needs to stop cutting checks for Ray Lewis (who was the greatest linebacker I've ever seen) and Ed Reed (he's not the playmaker he once was) and only sign Flacco to a low cost deal.

 

Its going to be a long road to the Super Bowl for the Ravens. I don't know where you can pick up a franchise qb as long as you're finishing at .500 or above and they need help at linebacker and on the offensive line (which gave up 7 sacks last night).

 

Now, I admit I'm depressed after last night's game and the season has been, mostly, successful. Still, I want another deep playoff run and that doesn't look possible right now.

[yagersports]

I agree with the Ray and Ed evaluation. Ed was not only out of position, but he couldn't make up the ground as he once was able to. I'm not even sure Ed is better than Zbi or Nakimura.

[tsylvester]

Joe has takena step back? Really? You do relaize, for most of the season he has had two rookie receivers, both very raw, as the #1 and #3, right? You do realize, with no training camp, one of the offensive lineman was an out of shape older vet, right? You do realize, he was also missing his starting center and gaurd this year, right?

 

Add to that a more down field passing game plan and you get his completion %, a career low, but an improved touchdown to interception ratio.

 

Is he Brady, P Manning, Brees or Rogers? Nope, but then who is? a step back, I think not, and I guess you frget he beat the Steelers for a 2nd time in two years, with a game winning drive; both games in Pittsburgh.... Yeah, a lot of quarterbacks do that........with the cast of characters Joe has had to work with.

 

Other than that, what you have said has been said in the other threads on this subject.

 

Ed is the best option at the safety position. Is he the Ed of old, no, but his leadership and instincts are needed far more than Ray's. Last night Ed was playing hurt, reinjured on the attempt to tackle at the goal line when he went shoulder first in the runningback's hips.

 

The receivers don't get open because 1) Tory is still raw, never did run good routes, but he is improving. He is a deep threat for the most part. Evans is still learning the offense, and Boldin runs the same routes. A good portion of the issue is play selecion. Cam does not like to use everything in each game, he likes to use just enough in the route tree... Foolish, yes, but it has gotten them to 10 wins, man, people will cry about everything...........

[Dunno]

I agree about Lewis, hate to say it, but time to retire.

 

Reed, I am not sure. I think he is more injured than done, but if he can ever stay healthy for 16+ games a season going forward is a big question. If not, there has got to be a better backup plan.

 

Which leads me to my biggest issue in that game. Apparently the Chargers managed to shut down the Ravens passing attack while giving Rice lots of space to run. Why couldn't the Ravens do the same (preferably before they are down by 3 possessions)?

 

The team is much more likely to lose to the Chargers passing attack than their rushing game. This fanatical devotion, in some games, to stop the run while getting beat by the pass borders on insanity.

 

I was not a fan of Greg Mattison, but his defensive game plan vs San Diego was better than the one they executed yesterday. (Not that giving up 26 points in a game is a great game plan by any stretch of the imagination)

 

As for Flacco, he is what he is. I do think you can win the SB with him, but you are going to have to skimp on his salary to pay for extra quality linemen. Whether he is willing to take a discount to invest that money in the O-line remains to be seen. If not, you might have to look elsewhere for your QB of the future.

[vmax]

35 passing attempts to 14 rushes...sad.

Worse ye...t they only averaged 5.7 YPP when they were getting 6.1 ypc running the ball. The Chargers were all over Ray Rice, so the best way to get him the ball was to hand it to him. Pound the ball, move the chains, eat clock, keep Rivers off the field, give the D a rest and time to regroup...but noooooooooooo....

[OutsideRzAcE]

Joe has takena step back? Really? You do relaize, for most of the season he has had two rookie receivers, both very raw, as the #1 and #3, right? You do realize, with no training camp, one of the offensive lineman was an out of shape older vet, right? You do realize, he was also missing his starting center and gaurd this year, right?

 

Add to that a more down field passing game plan and you get his completion %, a career low, but an improved touchdown to interception ratio.

 

Is he Brady, P Manning, Brees or Rogers? Nope, but then who is? a step back, I think not, and I guess you frget he beat the Steelers for a 2nd time in two years, with a game winning drive; both games in Pittsburgh.... Yeah, a lot of quarterbacks do that........with the cast of characters Joe has had to work with.

 

Other than that, what you have said has been said in the other threads on this subject.

 

Ed is the best option at the safety position. Is he the Ed of old, no, but his leadership and instincts are needed far more than Ray's. Last night Ed was playing hurt, reinjured on the attempt to tackle at the goal line when he went shoulder first in the runningback's hips.

 

The receivers don't get open because 1) Tory is still raw, never did run good routes, but he is improving. He is a deep threat for the most part. Evans is still learning the offense, and Boldin runs the same routes. A good portion of the issue is play selecion. Cam does not like to use everything in each game, he likes to use just enough in the route tree... Foolish, yes, but it has gotten them to 10 wins, man, people will cry about everything...........

 

I don't think the receivers were the problem yesterday. Joe seemed to be making his reads excrutiatingly slow. The near pick to Weddle on the first drive is a perfect example. Lee evans was wide open inside the 5 and Joe threw it to him so late it almost ended up being intercepted (turned into a pass defensed by Weddle). It should have been a Touchdown. I don't know if its familiarity, but you are right in that against the Steelers Joe has mostly been on point. It's when we play these random teams that he just seems lost occasionally. Joe is a solid QB...first QB to ever take his team to the playoffs for 4 straight years...but when he's bad, he's bad. He doesn't seem to be able to take it to that extra gear when the team needs it most.

[ForceEight]

35 passing attempts to 14 rushes...sad.

Worse ye...t they only averaged 5.7 YPP when they were getting 6.1 ypc running the ball. The Chargers were all over Ray Rice, so the best way to get him the ball was to hand it to him. Pound the ball, move the chains, eat clock, keep Rivers off the field, give the D a rest and time to regroup...but noooooooooooo....

It's definitely not about running the ball this week. When the other team is throwing the ball at will, you have absolutely no choice but to do the same thing, period.

[yagersports]

Let's also not forget that the Webb injury was disastrous. We're so very thin at CB and we were exposed big time. However is excruciatingly clear that Ray has lost about 3 steps out there. He flat out can no longer cover receivers and he has trouble reacting quickly to the ball. Those two things made this defense just leak like a sieve. However wouldn't some zone coverage have helped with the deep ball situation? Maybe some help cover two to prevent the ridiculous deep passing game? Oh well, all we can do is get ready to play alot of games on the road.

[Spen]

I think Joe has certainly taken a step back this season. He has had a few tremendous games but hes had a lot of bad ones too. He has already thrown more INTs this season that last and his fumbles have increased. He still locks onto his targets and still seems to not see defenders that are just waiting for him to throw the ball. He holds onto the ball forever still. I still do not think he has progressed much if at all from his rookie year.

 

Its going to be interesting how his contract talks go. He thinks he is Top 5 and will want a nice contract. I have to think the front office at least has some doubts about the ceiling for the team as long as Joe is the QB.

 

I am pretty convinced that unless Joe lucks into a Dilfer like situation, with a once in a generation type defense, he is not good enough to go all the way. He certainly does not seem to be a big game QB, while he has had a few great important games most of the others and most of his playoff games have been duds.

 

Of course that could be because of Cam Cameron being too conservative, or Cam being too aggressive, or new receivers, or an offensive line that cannot keep him protected for 8 seconds while he looks around the field before he dumps it 4 yards to Ray Rice, or the moon out of alignment or something.

[cravnravn]

I see Joe getting a Romo type contract...

 

And Spen, his INT's are up because hes going downfield more often.

[cravnravn]

How come Joe puts up 14 points in a loss against a decent team and its taking a step back, Ben puts up 3 points 4 turnovers and is still elite.

[papasmurfbell]

The last TD was trash time. That should be disreguarded.

[papasmurfbell]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-5-things-we-learned-from-chargers-34-ravens-14-20111219,0,757399.photogallery

 

What's disappointing about the Ravens letting the No. 1 seed slip from their grasp this year is this: The schedule really did unfold in their favor. Even before the season started, it was clear they were getting a favorable draw. Their toughest non-divisional opponents -- the Jets, Texans>, the 49ers -- all had to come to Baltimore. (Tennessee's resurgence was a bit of a surprise, but they've hardly been an elite team.) Injuries kept breaking the Ravens way as well. They got to face the Colts without Peyton Manning, the Texans without Mario Williams and Andre Johnson, the Steelers without LaMarr Woodley, and the Bengals without A.J. Green. You need a little luck to get a No. 1 seed in the AFC, but the opportunity was there for the Ravens. And they squandered it long before they faced the Chargers.

 

Why can't this team consistently play great football on the road? I think it's because, in the heat of competition, great teams are usually able to rely on one thing they do really well. Maybe they can run it when they absolutely have to. Or throw the ball even if the defense knows it's coming. Maybe their defense shuts people down with suffocating efficiency. But when adversity strikes, they can lean heavily on their main strength.

 

What's the Ravens main strength? Prior to Sunday, you probably would have said the defense. But keep in mind, Tennessee showed us early in the year if you get the ball out quickly, you can neutralize the Ravens' pass rush. The Ravens are a good running team, but not a great one. They're can make plays in the passing game, but can't ask Flacco to carry the team. They're good in a lot of areas, but they don't dominate in any one facet of the game. As soon as Phillip Rivers started to carve up Baltimore's secondary Sunday night, I knew they were done. The defense has been the one thing keeping them in road games this year. If the defense has an off night against an elite player, you can pretty much forget about it. Because they can't match teams score for score. Not on the road.

[OutsideRzAcE]

How come Joe put up 14 points in a loss against a decent team and its taking a step back, Ben puts up 3 points 4 turnovers and is still elite.

 

The Chargers are decent because of thier offense....their defense is pedestrian. And obviously Big Jen was injuried (yes, contrary to my earlier beliefs that he was embellishing).

[oldno82]

The best thing I like about this forum is the diversity of opinions you guys bring to it. I usually find it quite mentally stimulating and after reading all the responses above I feel that way more than ever. You guys make me think and at my age thats a blessing!

 

I think we have have a very good defense and a good offense but neither is in the 'great' category. The defense is not up to the one that we had around the early part of last decade. The offense probably has more weapons than any other Raven offense has had since they've been here. I guess the problem I see with Joe is something Ozzie said a few years ago at the end of the season press conference. Ozzie said he liked an offense that could move the ball on the ground but it had to be one that 'could win in a shootout' too. I think we're missing that. Our defense can't carry the team every game so there are going to be times the offense bails them out just like there are times they bail out the offense.

 

We didn't respond like that against the Chargers. Instead our passing game looked incapable of winning a shootout and in fact looked like they couldn't even participate in one.

 

As I've been a real longtime Baltimore football fan, I think back not only to the days of Johnny U and what magic he could do, but also back to the Bert Jones days when that guy could carry a team on his back by his outstanding offensive production.

 

I think thats missing from this franchise.

 

Still, after reading all the comments above I have to say that I feel better today than yesterday about our prospects and certainly the Steelers losing helped that too.

 

We HAVE to win the next two games. This team is capable of winning the next two days. I'm hoping our quarterback and our coaching is up to it. Maybe they are and maybe we'll get a Christmas present of the Ravens getting that first round bye and at least one home playoff game.

 

The Bengals will be tough again but we did beat them once---here.

[BengalBilly]

The Bengals will be tough again but we did beat them once---here.

I'm looking forward to that game.

[52isUnstoppable]

Way i see it. We r pissed we stunk it up on national tv like always. We practice hard, destroy a terrible browns team at home this week. Carry that momentum into a huge game at cincy, beat a rookie qb and then get healthy during the bye

[BengalBilly]

Way i see it. We r pissed we stunk it up on national tv like always. We practice hard, destroy a terrible browns team at home this week. Carry that momentum into a huge game at cincy, beat a rookie qb and then get healthy during the bye

Wear purple colored glasses much?

[cravnravn]

35 passing attempts to 14 rushes...sad.

Worse ye...t they only averaged 5.7 YPP when they were getting 6.1 ypc running the ball. The Chargers were all over Ray Rice, so the best way to get him the ball was to hand it to him. Pound the ball, move the chains, eat clock, keep Rivers off the field, give the D a rest and time to regroup...but noooooooooooo....

As a team we carried the ball 14 for 89 yards, thats 6 1/2 yards a pop. If the D would have did their job we could have expanded on the run.