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papasmurfbell

Cam is great and Bruce blows

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That's not a bad idea, Joe's best year occurred when he had a QB coach and Cam just focused on OC. A buffer between Cam and Joe is a good alternative between firing Cam and doing nothing. That seems fair.

 

I would look at Bruce Arian. He is available.

LOL, are you kidding me, hes worse than Cam.

 

No thanks.

 

Ben has taken a huge amount of hits in that offense. Now maybe that is on Ben, maybe on the OC, but I don't want Flacco to take that many hits. It will shorten his career by multiple years.

 

I disagree.

 

There is a team philosophy and strategy on how to win games. The Offense, Defense and Special Teams work in tandum to achieve that.

Cam has to fit his offense into that.

Ozzie gets him big ass road grading lineman because he wants to run. He wants to be physical.

They want to win the field position battle, time of possession, turnovers and control the game....Ravens football.

 

To Cam, Ozzie and Harbaugh a dump off pass to Ray Rice is a run. They want him in the second level with the ball.

 

Joe is a "Steward" with the ball. His job is to not turn it over, and put the D in a tight spot. Joe does that well.

Joe has to be able to make the "big play". He does that well too.

For most of his career Joe did not have the pass protecting line and receivers that he needed for this team to be pass happy. So Cam put Joe in the best position to succeed as a QB and for the offense to succeed in their role of the overall game plan for winning.

Slowly Ozzie's been getting Joe and Cam the pieces to open it up and really be deadly.

Just might see it happen this year.

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Thats just bullshit and you know it..So much emphasis is placed on 3 games its not funny..The only people that wanted Cam ran out of town were the Fans and Mike Preston..Not once did I hear Bisquit or Harbs bitch about Cam, Joe might of had some mumblings but thats on him, hes been in the league long enough to check off if he sees something he doesn't like from the D.

 

If Evans make the catch, this isnt even brought up..If we are the products of our fathers, i can truly understand why Irsay upped ship.

 

As far as Cam goes, I hope Harbs is telling him to add more wrinkles to the offense. There were a few articles talking about how vanilla we were last year. However......we did play in the AFC championship game, and we were a dropped pass from the Super Bowl.

 

 

We won our division, had a bye, had a home playoff game..Yeah it was Cams fault Evans dropped the pass, yeah it was Cams fault Cundiff shanked a 30 yard field goal.

I'm not a Cam supporter, but our offense has improved while he has been here. We didn't lose much, so until we do, it' will be tough to replace him.

 

The thing is, you can always make a case to fire any coach if you only concentrate on the losses. And we lost fewer games than most of the league. So, using the how he performed in the losses also means we have to address how he performed in the wins.

 

I think it's more important to look at his failure to adjust at halftime and his inability to create an offense that plays to his players' strengths.

 

For instance, how many WR screens has Boldin been able to work? It's a specialty of his. Instead I see Boldin being asked to run 20-25 yds to get open. This isn't what Boldin is good at. Instead Boldin excels underneath.

 

Just one example.

OH...I forgot...rezone efficiency.

 

I like Cam but he drives me crazy...that's why I started this thread.

Ask the Vikings how they feel about not having Dennis Green anymore. They made the playoffs something like 7-10 yrs in a row. It wasn't good enough. Consistency wasn't valued, Dennis had to go. Since then where has that team been? They've had what 2 playoff appearances?

 

My point is, be careful what you wish for. Change doesn't automatically mean success.

 

Fact....with Cam our offense has been better than ever in Ravens history and fact.....we've been winning games. So, until that stops, AND it's his fault. Poor gameplanning, inefficiency in the redzone, failure to adjust, and failure to create an offense around his players' strengths, we likely won't change what's going on there.

 

If winning the Super Bowl is the goal.....consistency is what will get you there.

I think papa is dwelling on those 3 games from last year too much..I can find no fault for Cams game plan in the AFCCG, maybe if there is any fault it was with who we had in there at the time..Evans only caught 4 balls all season..Dickson dropping a pass around the goal line, ehh t

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Well, I see us franchising Joe and seeing what he has got next season with a new OC whether that be Caldwell or A N Other. If it doesn't work out then we lose nothing and haven't invested a big contract in Joe.

 

This is very much a show me what you have got year and a bit for Joe.

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Franchising Joe is not a good move, thats 16 mil dollars Steve will lay out for him, the fan base is split 50-50 on Joe now, he has this type of year next season and the fans will go ballistic.

 

That's just it crav, you are going to have to pay out at least twice that in a signing bonus on a long term contract. This way we get a show me year and Joe gets a chance to prove he is worth elite money.

 

If we give him top 10 money now and it turns out it was his fault and not Cam's the salary cap hit will hurt us bad for a couple of years. I just don't feel we are at a point to either give up on Joe and start again with a rookie or throw big money at him.

 

The franchise tag is expensive but it gives us much more flexibility and less risk. It's a roll of the dice if we try the alternatives.

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The numbers dont lie, a good QB has a 2 to 1 ratio Tds vs INTs Joe does not, and if you throw in his fumbles hes almost a 50-50 QB.

 

Its a business, Steve needs to play hardball with Joes agent, lets face it we are not sniffing round Two of the playoffs this year, our D is bad and Joe is proving he cant put the team on his shoulders and consistently win.

 

Giving him Franchise money is an average of the top 5 QB's in the league, I just think its a huge risk with no reward.

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This is really a tough issue. I don't like franchising Joe on the one hand because you're paying him top 5 money and thats not what he has shown---so far---and I 'd only pay him around 12th on that QB scale.

 

Now, Joe could make this easy in two ways: he could turn on fire and play lights out through 3 games and the playoff game and get the franchise tag or he can bottom out at his current level when it might make more sense to franchise him then trade him. I don't think we should sign him to a long term contract until he shows over the course of a whole season that he is indeed a better quarterback than what I have seen so far.

 

I'm pulling for Joe but he has to show me more before I'd show him the money.

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Papa -- ever notice that 90% of the posts you shared above were almost a year old?

 

Different times, different talks. And I've never defended Cam, so I don't really have a dog in the fight. But what people said last year - in reference to a team that had been successful all year and into the playoffs, and just a play from the Super Bowl - is a bit different from what is or could be said today...

 

As Crav said in one post... it's hard to find a major complaint with Cam's gameplan in the AFCC game last year... just a lack of execution when the time came.

 

Only 7 year old girls and teenage boys waste time rubbing noses in "I told you so." Grow up.

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I know what you did. All I'm saying is... so what?

 

If we had won the Super Bowl last year, would you have been calling for his head? I certainly wouldn't have liked him - but it's hard to call for his firing then. So much the same can be said - and was said - in January last year. Several of the posts you cited even say, "well, can't fault him for the loss in NE ..."

 

So that's my point... who gives a shit? Congrats, you were two steps ahead of many on wanting him canned. And?

 

As I said, "I told you so" is for 7 year old girls and teenage boys... and siblings... but in the real world, where there is no legit right answer, you just move on.

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"They weren't going to win a SB last yr." is easy to say after they didn't do it. But when they were one play from being in it... it's harder to say. And again, I never liked Cam and would have liked to see him go... but it doesn't make your comments any less asinine... as VA says, winning cures anything. You really think you can run an organization by canning coaches, etc after success? See how long your team lasts.

 

And grow up.

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Wow. You predicted that we would not be the 1 team of 16 to make the Super Bowl from this conference - what powers, what depth of understanding, what prophecy. Bow minions, BOW!!!!!!!

 

Meanwhile, you give no credence to the fact that life is not black and white - there are shades in between. The team was one play from the Super Bowl; one play that fell not on the coordinator but on the player who dropped the pass. And yet you can't even acknowledge that such a degree of success would, to a rational human being, be enough give them pause in their choice.

 

If the O's had missed the playoffs by one game, you could have sat back and said much the same... "Told you so... blow up the team." But in reality, had the O's missed the playoffs by one game, we'd be in much the same situation we are now. The Ravens are hardly different. I want(ed) Cam out as much as anyone - but you simply know it's not going to happen in the aftermath of the success of last year. And the posts I see don't say "All is forgiven, Cam is God's gift to us..." rather they very plainly, in context, say "Cam got us here - for that he deserves some credit. Because only four other coordinators did the same."

 

So I return to... "I told you so" must be an aphrodisiac for you or something, but it's just plain silly that you waste this much time to say, "Look! I made a prediction that would hold true 94% of the time - and it came true! You fools!"

 

How about I put it this way... we have a choice whether we can be productive or destructive. Your posts are intentionally destructive; they add nothing to the greater picture. So, again, grow up.

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