tsylvester

Yes, you young whipper snappers do, thus the success of shows like First Take and their ilk. Back in my day when we walked to school 10 miles, in the snow, bare foot & up hill both ways we enjoyed calm, reasonable discussion without arguments, drama, or flamboyance.

In January, claims he will ne ready for training camp, it is a 4-6 month recovery... While everyone heals differently, it should be a good "test" to see how long he will last and how well he will produce, for the Jack situation. Yes different positions, but still.. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/15498945/san-diego-chargers-rb-melvin-gordon-expects-ready-training-camp-microfracture-surgery-knee

Camp is another wasted pick. As I said when he was drafted, too injury riddled. At least, however, he had played the position before, and has excellent hands. You missed the point though. They have never developed a wide out. Add to that, they are so low on man power and talent at wide out & in the secondary why on earth do they take a chance on him when they could have chosen so many others who have better odds of making it in the NFL....

Not so much that they are wrong, rather how they are wrong, how they give their opinion. And yes, he was wrong, even at the time, about Kap and that offense. How is Kap today and what has that offensive system done lately? Trent is too over dramatic, just like Ray who got too poetic with every question and answer. They are the Bill Waltons of football.

Yes the same Dilfer who also said that Colin Kapernik was "revolutionizing" the quarterback position and that offense was unstoppable, the offense of the future..... How did that work out? At least Terico is gone too...

There is a long way to go for him. Catching a pass, running routes, then doing it all at game speed with contact. Good luck. His biggest challange might be hanging onto the ball IF he catches it. So many other players who are already accomplished, yet this organization, which has never developed a wide out, and is in desperate need of a slot\ return man, takes him....

Good, he was terrible. They need to clean house some more, get rid of Trent and Stephen A Smith next. Boomer too....

Eh, he is on a beach somewhere with his head in the sand, errr umm toes in the sand....

or 2 wide outs who shall not be named....

I never boo, but I also enjoy people's opinions on the games, on the players, on the moves the team makes.

http://espn.go.com/blog/baltimore-ravens/post/_/id/19522/re-grading-the-baltimore-ravens-2013-draft That is just one draft, a draft after which, many of the same members you are bashing said was a clunker, a C at best.... No, we couch jockeys are not always right, but then again, neither are those who grade drafts, nor make the picks. After the 2013 draft, many pundits were saying the Ravens got B+, A, etc.... now we see....

Winston is having his option picked up. Womack is not... Great post. They had to rate Stanley higher, right? I mean, they claim to stay true to their board.....

Don't get me wrong, I like the Kaufusi pick, but he disappeared in a lot of games, made a number of his sacks/tackles for loss when he was unblocked &/ or against poor right tackles. A first and 3rd, if true, is a bit steep, but for Ramsey, to settle the deep secondary with a new secondary coach who is one of the best and with a vet in Weddle back there, yeah, you make that trade. They still have not replaced KO, unless they plan to start Stanley there or move Wagner there. There were a number of guards in the 2-3 rd range who are stating caliber that the Ravens had chances to land. Frankly, since they drafted Stanley, they should have backed it up with a good guard in the 2nd, or even 3rd rather than going defense end who needs grooming back to back. Sure we can snow blow the picks by saying they went after pass rushers to help the secondary, to build depth for two over priced often injured older players who seem to disappear late in games, or when they are needed most.... Bottom line, Stanley has to pan out as a solid starter right away and one of the others has ro be more than a special teams beast/ 10 play a game fill in, or else they really messed this draft up. The potential no doubt is there, Young is small but very solid if he can keep his hands off of recievers. Correa and Koufusi have the potential to make a difference along with all the other young defensive linemen. Stanley has great potential to settle part of the line either at guard or either tackle. Dixon adds depth at most, he is the same back as Allen, but smaller and less experienced. With luck, one of the offensive line undrafted free agents pans out or the hot head from Nebraska.... Bewteen the two nepotism picks from Michigan, one of them should work out. We will see, it just would have been nice to have a real slot reciever besides an aging Steve do everything Smith...

Some, not all, the team could not run the ball conaistantly nor when they most needed. The defense continued to blow leads or just get flat out beat. Always falling down in the 4th. The offense couldn't sustain drives to give the defense rest. All of this before the injuries happened. Most of the reason for all of that due to average players....

That show was sooo messed up from the get go, Data showed emtion from day one, even when "no one was around". Terrible story lines, terrible directing, but good acting. C+ Hehehe

Good question, time will tell, they thought Monroe was one, Oher was one, I thought differently. He has potential, but nothing I have seen from him in college says he will be a long term solid left tackle.

Make your point. I didn't blast them for not taking Jack, I was critical of them for 1) rating him lower than Correa 2) doing so claiming Correa is a better player and not because of Jack's injury. There is a difference, sorry ifI was not more clear.

Here are some more Max. http://m.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Reports-Ravens-Adding-Undrafted-Free-Agents/503918a4-5631-4293-a056-cb2b6b452aee

I hear ya old friend. I am happy with a few picks but the double talk from the front office has grown old. Rob outlined some of it, but the words of taking only stand up guys and ignoring players like Tunsil but draft Alex Lewis who has just as "bad" optics, is another example. Their justification for not taking Jack, making Correa a a higher rated player; shocks me. I am sure the injury has them worried. Any time words such as degenerative, chondral defect come into play, it is worth further scrutiny. It makes me wonder, did they really have the two players rated that way, or were they too afraid to say the injury was too much? Maybe because it would cause an up roar with local media and fans who might think their first round pick from last year has the same issue? Here is a decent read on some of the players who had the same injury and issue, who had the microfracture surgery. Some recovered, some, no, a few, the jury is still out. http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/nfl-draft-myles-jack-knee-injury-microfracture-overcome-reggie-bush-042916

We've "known" each other long time, many boards over the years. I too am not writing off the season, completely, no matter who they were to draft, finding two starters who will make a big impact is too much to ask for any fan, or even front office. This year will be largely based on health yes, but also the 2013 draft class with free agents thrown in.

I'm with you TC, as Mike Wibon would say, I am old school, stats are great but there is nothing to replace the eye. Lol We will get a good look at stats with the Browns this year, they used advanced stats to make their draft picks. Stats do work just like the eye, sometimes yes, sometimes no. PFF is a good site, I used them often when I was writing and needed some stats to back up an opinion. But I also have found them to be misleading such as with Moore, I know he plays faster than times and is a tough receiver, but the reason he was open deep so often, had the gaudy statsis because of the spread offense and the other receivers on his team who were either double covered or had the zonea favor their side. He was often playing against the worst defenser on a sub par team. That is what stats don't tell, what one can only learn from watching as just one example. I know you know this and I appreciate you and Max posting articles and stats on players; I love it. My post, I hope you know was directed at the other two, not you or max or any of the old gaurd here. Peace.

When you call a player who runs a 4.5 a speedster, it is time to put the pencil down. When you call a former quarterback who has never returned kicks or punts a returner, it is time to hang the hat up.

I don't regurgitate things I hear and pass them off as my own. I actually watch games and know what to look for in players; I learned how to from some of the best. I give my honest opinion, sometimes right, sometimes wrong and as with any draft, always with the caveat of; it is early. Mel and McShay use the value to mean ; contributors. The Browns have a team filled with contributors, how has that workes out? This team is filled already with contributors, that is why they were picking 6th. Ozzie has missed on many, many of the past draft picks, again, thus why they picked 6th. I like, as I said, a few of the picks, but several make no sense from any stand point as I said above. So yes, on a discussion board, we will discuss the issues with players and question decisions; that is what a discussion board does. If you want to insult others because of their opinion, maybe you should get off the couch, go to the library and learn about the game. Then watch players, not the ball, see exactly what, how and why they made or missed a play. Instead of regurgitating what the "experts" say about a player as to why a draft pick was right or wrong. A player who turns the ball over in college almost always has the same issues in the pros. They drafed two players who fumble.

Well, they pick two players who have fumbling issues. They turn away from a top prospect because of a past, misconstrued issue, then turn around and draft a tweener who has a past of beating a man unconscious. They avoid loading up on a position of need, they draft a player who has to change positions and has yet to do so, instead of drafting a player who has switched positions, and done so, well. They draft a receiver who is extremely raw, not very fast, and is a body catcher with suspect hands. Tell me Grub, when was the last time they developed a receiver? How easy is it to get ONE player to hang onto the ball consistently, let a lone two? They claimed the injury of one of the best players in the draft did not play any role in how they rated him, yet they rated a player who has only been a rush end, never asked to cover, built his stats against lesser opponents over said player? If Jack was completely healthy, do you honestly expect us to believe Correa is a better player, better prospect than Jack? Do you think Reynolds is better than Cooper? Cooper is a slot receiver, is a return man, has great hands. Moore could have been had, or any player like him, much lower in the draft. I will give them Stanley, can't trade out, can't trade up for Ramsey, they had no other options and were scared off by the mess Tunsil is going through with his ex step father. I love the Kaufusi pick, so much, POTENTIAL, but so much work needed. Correa is a nice pick, but he too is a work in progress, Lewis should be a decent back up right tackle, maybe a guard, maybe, likely gone in two years. Henry is a good pick up to add depth to the defensive line and can play the 3 technique, so he could move to end in the 3-4 as well.... Judon, another good pick if a team has only a few needs because as good as his stats were, as he should be, he too is raw and needs time to learn the NFL game; he is strictly a rush end, but another project. Canady is experienced, played against some good competition, but he has poor hands, little play making ability; another project. Young, a good pick, under sized, but he plays big. However, he is a grabber because of his size and prone to penalties, just what the defense needs... more penalties. They can train that out of him, he should make the team and contribute this year. Five defensive backs on the roster before the draft, they only take a chance on two, at a position that always seems to suffer an injury, and is low on talent. Safety has been an issue for years, Weddle is a nice addition, but he is older, the two safeties they drafted each of the past few years, suck, are busts, and not one safety taken. Time will tell, an F? no, but certainly not a B at this point, maybe a C +

Not even close, yet they felt drafting a gimic guy would suffice. Seems to me their wanted good publicity by drafting Reynolds to keep the "fans" happy with this whiff of a draft. Heaven for bid they draft 6 db's and make them fight it out to see who makes the team...If they wanted a slot guy, a return guy there were plenty of others in this draft who are natural players and would do a much better job. They say a draft takes 3 years to realize, well go back 3 years to see why this team was picking at 6. Then go back 2 years, then last year, see how many times this team will be picking in the top 10 over the few years.....