Merged: Michael Sam

[dc.]

No. I agree. Not what I meant.

 

What I meant was when did you last her anyone say, "it's intolerant for us to dislike them" the way people argue on issues of gay rights?

 

I've never seen anyone post the meme above in regards to racism, anti semitism, sexism... Only gay rights (and other issues that maybe it should be used for)

[Tornado700]

 

Of course not. Why would a bigot be upset he is a bigot? Are you a misogynist too?

 

Are you an asshole?

Answer is yes.

[Spen]

Are you an asshole?

Answer is yes.

You mad? Why?

 

I didn't call you anything you didn't admit or make evident yourself then just asked you a simple question. So in addition to being a bigot are you also misogynistic?

[Robjr83]

No. I agree. Not what I meant.

 

What I meant was when did you last her anyone say, "it's intolerant for us to dislike them" the way people argue on issues of gay rights?

 

I've never seen anyone post the meme above in regards to racism, anti semitism, sexism... Only gay rights (and other issues that maybe it should be used for)

 

 

The meme's called College Liberal Girl and can used for several things besides gay rights

 

 

[papasmurfbell]

And I am sure whoever made them asked her about all her views.

[dc.]

 

 

The meme's called College Liberal Girl and can used for several things besides gay rights

 

Yeah I just meant the quote in particular which is used frequently in the gay rights debate. And expresses a sentiment I think is lousy.

 

Everyone condemns racism and anti semitism and misogyny... No one says, "wait let's hear out the guy who wants to argue that interracial marriage is a sin."

 

But calling anti gay bigotry just what it is... Well that's just being intolerant.

 

And again, there are elements of the gay rights debate that are perhaps really debatable... But whether they should be hated and trashed just for being themselves, I think that one is settled and we should say so.

[Tornado700]

You mad? Why?

 

I didn't call you anything you didn't admit or make evident yourself then just asked you a simple question. So in addition to being a bigot are you also misogynistic?

 

Since you're the smartest guy in the room Spen, explain how, #1, I'm a bigot because I don't like the sight of two men kissing? And more importantly, Spen, M.D., # 2, the corrolation of that and hating women? Tell me how they tie together.This ought to be good.Maybe your liberal friend DC (brain) can help you out.

[dc.]

I actually don't consider myself liberal. I am sure many will laugh at that but it's true. On this issue sure I side with the current view associated with liberals, but it's not overriding on all or even most issues. I don't agree with the general liberal worldview per se.

 

I've already told you how it's not about not liking men kissing but it is about the way you've discussed and disparaged the whole situation - you claim you haven't, but we disagree on that. Crav and others here have expressed they didn't like the kiss without the level of vitriol you bring to the debate.

 

I'll ask it this way - do you have any gay friends? If so, would you ask them not to kiss in front of you? Would you not go to their wedding knowing they'd kiss?

[papasmurfbell]

I actually don't consider myself liberal. I am sure many will laugh at that but it's true. On this issue sure I side with the current view associated with liberals, but it's not overriding on all or even most issues. I don't agree with the general liberal worldview per se.

 

I've already told you how it's not about not liking men kissing but it is about the way you've discussed and disparaged the whole situation - you claim you haven't, but we disagree on that. Crav and others here have expressed they didn't like the kiss without the level of vitriol you bring to the debate.

 

I'll ask it this way - do you have any gay friends? If so, would you ask them not to kiss in front of you? Would you not go to their wedding knowing they'd kiss?

You are smart to pick and choose how you feel issue by issue instead of being in the bag of a group. I lean toward libertarian but I am probably only in agreement with them about 40% of the time.

[tsylvester]

FYI, Sams' show on the Opie network has been postponed. apparently neither he nor his representatives told the Rams about the show when he was drafted, much to their chagrin I am sure.

[papasmurfbell]

Also I am seeing conflicting reports that the NFL knew about the show. I would advise the kid not to do the show.

[dc.]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/17/the-political-power-of-michael-sam-s-liplock-with-his-lover.html

 

Just to show both sides... A scientific poll in this article says a plurality (47%) found the airing of the kiss inappropriate.

 

The gist of the article though is that a majority say homosexuality is OK - 65% of NFL fans said they would be OK with their team drafting Sam - but we still can't actually handle looking at something like that.

 

So Tornado... Seems like there are lots of people who say they are OK with gay but not OK with the kiss. I'll give you that. But I still think telling him to stay in the closet and using the term faggot show that your position is a bit more extreme...

[papasmurfbell]

Some think that we are in the middle of the Culture Wars. They are about over and birth rates, modern information, and the dwindling of devout religiosity make for only one outcome of those wars.

[Tornado700]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/17/the-political-power-of-michael-sam-s-liplock-with-his-lover.html

 

Just to show both sides... A scientific poll in this article says a plurality (47%) found the airing of the kiss inappropriate.

 

The gist of the article though is that a majority say homosexuality is OK - 65% of NFL fans said they would be OK with their team drafting Sam - but we still can't actually handle looking at something like that.

 

So Tornado... Seems like there are lots of people who say they are OK with gay but not OK with the kiss. I'll give you that. But I still think telling him to stay in the closet and using the term faggot show that your position is a bit more extreme...

 

And it's your job here to make sure I get my pee pee slapped, right?

Right.

[tsylvester]

Also I am seeing conflicting reports that the NFL knew about the show. I would advise the kid not to do the show.

 

 

 

Apparently, the Opie net work, after speaking with the Rams, have put this on the back burner. This tells me, the deal was in place before he was drafted. Maybe Opie can run after Marhawn Lynch, who is having his own reality show,,,,,

[dc.]

 

And it's your job here to make sure I get my pee pee slapped, right?

Right.

So you get to shout your opinions but no one can shout back?

[Robjr83]

IMO the word ''hate'' is overused by the media to describe people who don't whole heatedly embrace people with alt lifestyle choices. To me hating a person is reserved to for someone who wronged you personally. I don't hate Sam for being gay. I have 2 gay cousins and don't hate them. I don't care what you do in the bedroom doesn't mean I'd like to watch you eat cake out of your lovers mouth.... is that hate?

[cravnravn]

I hate Mike Vick,

 

If Sams can get thru the media and an pressures hes about to face, he'll be a decent ball player..I did not see, or care to see the "kiss". Hes a grown man, he made his choice.

[papasmurfbell]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV5w8OFrm6U

[dc.]

IMO the word ''hate'' is overused by the media to describe people who don't whole heatedly embrace people with alt lifestyle choices. To me hating a person is reserved to for someone who wronged you personally. I don't hate Sam for being gay. I have 2 gay cousins and don't hate them. I don't care what you do in the bedroom doesn't mean I'd like to watch you eat cake out of your lovers mouth.... is that hate?

I'm torn on this but largely agree. As I said a few times in here, I get that some people just don't want to see it and that is different from hate.

 

But I see more malice in the sentiment of "get that of my TV" or "stay in the closet" or other slanderous terms. That's what I struggle most with.

[papasmurfbell]

http://www.examiner.com/article/robin-roberts-defends-nfl-draft-pick-michael-sam-s-draft-day-kiss

 

 

She told CNN’s Brian Stelter, “What was he supposed to do, shake his hand? It was one of those moments that, when you saw it, it was so spontaneous. It was so natural…He’s happy like every other young man was happy, and turned to somebody and show their gratitude an expressed their love for the person that was next to him. His just happened to be his boyfriend.”

[papasmurfbell]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ybAlFrV8f4

[papasmurfbell]

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2014/05/19/ac-ridiculist-michael-sam-kiss-dallas-tv-station.cnn.html

If you are on TV you really should watch out what you say. That pesky video tape can comeback to haunt you.

[dc.]

I always wonder ... when you look back at the civil rights movement and see those photos of the first students going to mixed high schools in Birmingham and Selma and Jackson... and in the background are their peers, spitting and yelling and cursing and scowling...

 

How do those people feel now? They've been immortalized - somewhat anonymously (good for them) - as the angry faces in the background. They are also saved by the fact that we so rarely really look at their faces, we look so much more at the students being attacked.

 

Regardless, I wonder how long before people look at the pictures and videos of this time and feel similarly. Maybe never.

 

 

Anyway... I never understand the "get it off my TV" mantra. You're yelling at Sam, but really you're angry at ESPN and the NFL. They have embraced it. If you don't want to see them embracing it, then make the free market choice to not watch the NFL and not watch ESPN. Find an alternative that meets your needs and wants and desires. That's how the market works and we should let it work, right? Why should anyone else get to tell me what I watch or what ESPN chooses to broadcast?

[Spen]

 

 

Anyway... I never understand the "get it off my TV" mantra. You're yelling at Sam, but really you're angry at ESPN and the NFL. They have embraced it. If you don't want to see them embracing it, then make the free market choice to not watch the NFL and not watch ESPN. Find an alternative that meets your needs and wants and desires. That's how the market works and we should let it work, right? Why should anyone else get to tell me what I watch or what ESPN chooses to broadcast?

Straight Dave's American Football League? Like the MMA Straight Dave's Man Slammin' Maxout?