varaven45 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Kube's staying is encouraging and a key piece of the puzzle. On the other side of the ball, unsure of Pees as our DC. Still, If we can retain our key FAs, acquire a playmaking WR and or TE, fix our secondary and welcome back a healthy Jimmy Smith, and have an excellent draft - WR, TE, RB, CB, QB- then we could have a nice 2015 and beyond. The future looks bright, especially if we witness an issue- free off season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldno82 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Aaron Wilson is tweeting Kubiak was aware of the Denver-Fox rumors yesterday and took them into account when making his decision to stay. Kubiak didn't have to announce his intention to stay as quickly as he did, so I believe AW's story. AW also tweeted that Kubiak is building a home in OM.This storyline just gets better and better. A welcome difference after all the bad events of 2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravnravn Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Kube's staying is encouraging and a key piece of the puzzle. On the other side of the ball, unsure of Pees as our DC.Still, If we can retain our key FAs, acquire a playmaking WR and or TE, fix our secondary and welcome back a healthy Jimmy Smith, and have an excellent draft - WR, TE, RB, CB, QB- then we could have a nice 2015 and beyond. The future looks bright, especially if we witness an issue- free off season. I think we are too harsh on pees, we were #2 in sacks, #4 in rush d, #2 in red zone d..as pops eluded to you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit, let's get Pees some legit corners and safeties, this d will be lights out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravnravn Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Aaron Wilson is tweeting Kubiak was aware of the Denver-Fox rumors yesterday and took them into account when making his decision to stay. Kubiak didn't have to announce his intention to stay as quickly as he did, so I believe AW's story. AW also tweeted that Kubiak is building a home in OM.I am really really shocked that Horse face bitch didn't immediately go after Del Rio for the head coach job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robjr83 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Looks like Elway's trying to screw us again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubberRaven Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 If Kub is smart, he'd run far away from Denver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robjr83 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I'm assuming Kubs would have at least thought of Denver before being so quick to announce hes staying. He'd have to know Fox was on the hot seat before the game. If he's lucky Mannings staying maybe a year. Meanwhile they have several free agents coming up. So hes stuck rebuilding a team for the next 4 years and Elway has a short fuze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varaven45 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I would hope that Kube's has enough sense to know Denver football is heading south quick and w/o Peyton or any other franchise QB, there window is shut for a couple of years - its a couple yr rebuilding program.Kube's, with his previous heart condition, would be a fool to take that job. Life's too short to save that sinking ship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I am agreeing with the overall sentiment but these guys always grab the brass ring even in bad situations. I thought Marvin going to Cincy was foolish. He has raised them but may never get over the top. I knew Gruden in DC was really stupid. Rex in NY was not going to work. Woody doesn't know what he is doing up there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Good article from Preston: http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-preston-ravens-column-0113-20150112-column.html But for the time being Kubiak remains in Baltimore. And according to a team source, he has already approached general manager Ozzie Newsome about getting a big, No. 1 receiver, as well as a tight end. There is no argument here.Preston goes on to state: It's unlikely that Newsome will be able to come up with the money to attract Bryant, who is a free agent. But Denver's Demaryius Thomas is available and so is Green Bay's Randall Cobb.So here's the question: how much more money is Thomas or Dez Bryant in comparison to Torrey Smith? If we are going to pony up for Torrey, should we just pay a little more and get a #1 receiver in Bryant or Thomas? The Broncos have both Demaryius and tight-end Julius Thomas as free agents. The Cowboys have both DeMarco Murray and Bryant as free agents. If Bryant or Demaryius are unrestricted, do you go for one of them and let Torrey walk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Yes on Thomas. The one thing is the Ravens I think will be a little shallow on the cap space. Can they pull a Thomas off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Yes on Thomas. The one thing is the Ravens I think will be a little shallow on the cap space. Can they pull a Thomas off?How much more money can Thomas be over Torrey? If we can't get Thomas because of cap space, I wouldn't be optimistic we could retain Torrey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 He would be a lot more. DT is a top 3 WR. He will demand a great deal of money. Torrey maybe top 25. Not as much. His value is more depending on the system a team runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varaven45 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 How about we sign Demarius and Kubes tells Elway to take a hike. How cool would that be ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmax Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 He would be a lot more. DT is a top 3 WR. He will demand a great deal of money. Torrey maybe top 25. Not as much. His value is more depending on the system a team runs.Torrey wasn't top 50 this year but he did have 8 TD's. If the Ravens get DR then Torrey is the #3 receiver. That would be awesome but extravagant. They need to spend the money on the secondary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 He would be a lot more. DT is a top 3 WR. He will demand a great deal of money. Torrey maybe top 25. Not as much. His value is more depending on the system a team runs.I agree with you, but what does that mean in actual dollars? While DT is a top 5 receiver and Torrey is maybe top 20, there is a point of diminishing return with respect to the salary cap. Who do you see as comparable contracts to Torrey, and then Thomas and Bryant? As a starting point let's use this: Mike Wallace got $60M over five years with over $30M in guarantees. Calvin Johnson got $130M over eight years with over $53 in guarantees (signed before he hit free agency, remember Calvin had a big rookie deal before the new scale. Six years $64M with over $27M guaranteed. His later year CAP numbers were enormous this he had a lot of leverage with the Lions.) Would you say Torrey is comparable to Wallace and Bryant/Thomas are comparable to Johnson? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Calvin Johnson Lions $113,450,000 $16,207,143 $48,750,000 $6,964,286 43.0% 2020 UFA Larry Fitzgerald Cardinals $113,000,000 $16,142,857 $27,000,000 $3,857,143 23.9% 2019 UFA Percy Harvin Jets $64,245,000 $12,849,000 $14,500,000 $2,900,000 22.6% 2019 UFA Mike Wallace Dolphins $60,000,000 $12,000,000 $27,000,000 $5,400,000 45.0% 2018 UFA Dwayne Bowe Chiefs $56,000,000 $11,200,000 $20,000,000 $4,000,000 35.7% 2018 UFA Vincent Jackson Buccaneers $55,555,555 $11,111,111 $26,000,000 $5,200,000 46.8% 2017 UFA Brandon Marshall Bears $30,000,000 $10,000,000 $14,800,000 $4,933,333 49.3% 2018 UFA Jordy Nelson Packers $39,050,000 $9,762,500 $11,500,000 $2,875,000 29.4% 2019 UFA Andre Johnson Texans $67,800,000 $9,685,714 $20,500,000 $2,928,571 30.2% 2017 UFA Greg Jennings Vikings $45,000,000 $9,000,000 $17,800,000 $3,560,000 39.6% 2018 UFA Victor Cruz Giants $43,000,000 $8,600,000 $15,629,000 $3,125,800 36.3% 2019 UFA Pierre Garcon Redskins $42,500,000 $8,500,000 $13,100,000 $2,620,000 30.8% 2017 UFA Antonio Brown Steelers $41,960,000 $8,392,000 $8,500,000 $1,700,000 20.3% 2018 UFA DeSean Jackson Redskins $24,000,000 $8,000,000 $16,000,000 $5,333,333 66.7% 2017 Void Marques Colston Saints $36,300,000 $7,260,000 $17,700,000 $3,540,000 48.8% 2017 UFA Steve Johnson 49ers $36,250,000 $7,250,000 $11,000,000 $2,200,000 30.3% 2017 UFA Eric Decker Jets $36,250,000 $7,250,000 $15,000,000 $3,000,000 41.4% 2019 UFA Golden Tate Lions $31,000,000 $6,200,000 $10,500,000 $3,000,000 41.4% 2019 UFA Brian Hartline Dolphins $30,775,000 $6,155,000 $12,500,000 $2,500,000 40.6% 2018 UFA Roddy White Falcons $18,000,000 $6,000,000 $7,550,000 $2,516,667 41.9% 2018 UFA Wes Welker Broncos $12,000,000 $6,000,000 $6,000,000 $3,000,000 50.0% 2015 UFA Anquan Boldin 49ers $12,000,000 $6,000,000 $5,500,000 $2,750,000 45.8% 2016 UFA Reggie Wayne Colts $17,500,000 $5,833,333 $7,500,000 $2,500,000 42.9% 2015 UFA Danny Amendola Patriots $28,500,000 $5,700,000 $8,000,000 $1,600,000 28.1% 2018 UFA Jeremy Maclin Eagles $5,500,000 $5,500,000 $3,500,000 $3,500,000 63.6% 2015 UFA I would say DT surpasses Johnson. I think torrey is in the Garcon to Jennings range. As you can see that is a considerably large amount of money dividing the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasmurfbell Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 http://overthecap.com/position/wide-receiver/This is the source for the contract numbers. I didn't know that they would orient like they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Good stuff. There is a huge gap between Johnson/Fitzgerald and Harvin/Wallace. Remember, Johnson and Fitzgerald were top three picks with enormous rookie deals easily over $50M with large guarantees. Both guys had huge cap numbers prior to the contract ending and had to sign extensions. They had leverage. While Bryant and Thomas are certainly as good, will they get as much money on the open market where a team isn't technically restructuring a contract? It will be interesting to see. I'd put Torrey as comparable to Wallace. Torrey's numbers are a little less. He's better than Garçon was and considerably younger than Jennings. No doubt Torrey's agent will ask for Wallace money. I'm not sure if the Ravens would go that high though. He might be worth more to a team that runs a traditional deep ball offense like Cam Cameron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc. Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 New challenge: what does Kubiaks decision say about Harbaugh? There are some here that love to trash John - and sometimes with good reason. But he is frequently painted as a lame duck, a mouth piece, little knowledge or strategy, all smiles... Doesn't the fact that a guy like Kubiak sees promise in this team (and its leader) say a lot about the quality of work they are doing? At least, it should say that regardless of Harbaugh's public persona - which I frequently think is intentionally broad, congenial, generic - he has some recipe for what happens behind the scenes that others like our believe in. Some have laughed similar statements off as coming from players who "have to" say nice things... Actions speak louder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldno82 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 While I do get very tired of hearing Harbs say the same thing every week I think he's an excellent head coach. There are different talents and temperaments needed between being a head coach and being an offensive coordinator. While I do believe that Gary could be a successful head coach with Denver, I am thinking (and hoping) he finds being our OC is a good fit for him. On the whole, Gary is one of the best play-callers and game-planners I've seen and is definitely the best we've ever had. Sometimes I disagree with a call but often I am in awe of how good a game plan he comes up with and the plays he calls during the game as well. A head coach isn't as involved with those kind of activities and is more a whole team organizer and supervisor of his assistant coaches. To me, being a head coach actually sounds pretty boring. If you love the game of football, being an OC is about as good as you can get to actually playing again and the process of breaking down film and tendencies would seem to me a much more enjoyable task than being the 'rah-rah' guy Head Coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmax Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 New challenge: what does Kubiaks decision say about Harbaugh? There are some here that love to trash John - and sometimes with good reason. But he is frequently painted as a lame duck, a mouth piece, little knowledge or strategy, all smiles... Doesn't the fact that a guy like Kubiak sees promise in this team (and its leader) say a lot about the quality of work they are doing? At least, it should say that regardless of Harbaugh's public persona - which I frequently think is intentionally broad, congenial, generic - he has some recipe for what happens behind the scenes that others like our believe in. Some have laughed similar statements off as coming from players who "have to" say nice things... Actions speak louder. I think Kubiaks decision says1. He's happy here. He likes the front office, coaching staff, players, the organizations relentless commitment to excellence, the facilities, ownership and John.2. Good heath and less stress (if that's possible for an OC in the NFL) fit his needs.3. He has a QB that he believes he can do great things with.4. It's a great fit for him. He has that "Right moment Right Man" feeling. If you've ever been in the right place, at the right time, that your talents, abilities and experience are a perfect match for...then you'll understand how good and peaceful that feels. You don't want to move on. Money and Ego are not everything, and much of what I hear about Kubiak is that he does not have an over blown ego. 5. He says that he and his family like it here.6. This is his choice. That is huge and does speak volumes. He can get several HC jobs. He knows it. but for the reasons above, he's not interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravnravn Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Kubiak could of had the bears job or Denver's job if he wanted, just maybe he is comfortable being a coordinator? This is probably the best news this team has had in 15 years, how many times have we lost coaches right after the season and did a face palm of oh shit here we go. Then look at it deeper as to what it means to the offense to have Kubes back. Stability, another year to fine tune things. Offensively we are on the cusp of hoisting silver Betty again, we are only a player or 2 away on defense to be dominating once again. This decision by Kubes to not jump ship only solidifies my feelings on this team too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsylvester Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 No on D Thomas, he drops too many balls, often loses interest in games, a real head case. we have that now in many receivers........ Now Julius, yes, go after him if the cap allows... Kub's offense to work full go, really needs an athletic tight end like Daniels use to be, to exploit the linebackers. Thomas, J, would open up so much for this offense. But then, I feel there are several tight ends in the draft who have the same or similar skill sets.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundercleetz Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 No on D Thomas, he drops too many balls, often loses interest in games, a real head case. we have that now in many receivers........ Now Julius, yes, go after him if the cap allows... Kub's offense to work full go, really needs an athletic tight end like Daniels use to be, to exploit the linebackers. Thomas, J, would open up so much for this offense. But then, I feel there are several tight ends in the draft who have the same or similar skill sets....I was looking at your WR analysis from earlier in the topic. Pretty bold statement on this draft class but interesting nonetheless. Who do you think are targets for us at this point? Do you think there will be a WR worth taking? Or will they be snatched up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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