Preston: It’s time for the Ravens and Lamar Jackson to part ways

[papasmurfbell]

3 hours ago, oldno82 said:

I agree. But they had better replace not only Roman but the whole offensive scheme he uses.

The scheme can work with adjustment.  Look at Philly.  Look at SF which isn't quite the same but the ideas are similar.

[deeshopper]

35 minutes ago, tsylvester said:

Is it me, or did you adjust the color scheme? It looks delicious

lol. Yes. I had a few minutes today after I figured out the issue with the latest update.

[tsylvester]

Well done young lady, I bow to you

[oldno82]

1 hour ago, papasmurfbell said:

The scheme can work with adjustment.  Look at Philly.  Look at SF which isn't quite the same but the ideas are similar.

The scheme isn’t worth adjusting.. it had its run here but you can’t play catch-up with it if you fall behind. We need more passing power and better WRs and schemes that get them open.

[tsylvester]

23 minutes ago, oldno82 said:

The scheme isn’t worth adjusting.. it had its run here but you can’t play catch-up with it if you fall behind. We need more passing power and better WRs and schemes that get them open.

The running scheme works fine, plug & play. It is the passing game, the route combinations, the personnel packages, the plays called that are the issue.

A runningback gets hot, the running game takes off and Roman pulls the back, & starts to throw, not even with play action.

Those are the biggest issues. How Harbs, or the Biscuit cant see that is puzzling. Either they dont care because Roman is a friend or they are clueless, which is even scarier...

[papasmurfbell]

58 minutes ago, oldno82 said:

The scheme isn’t worth adjusting.. it had its run here but you can’t play catch-up with it if you fall behind. We need more passing power and better WRs and schemes that get them open.

Then why does a version of it work in Philly.  They run like crazy from so many different angles but also throw the ball around.  

[oldno82]

4 hours ago, tsylvester said:

The running scheme works fine, plug & play. It is the passing game, the route combinations, the personnel packages, the plays called that are the issue.

A runningback gets hot, the running game takes off and Roman pulls the back, & starts to throw, not even with play action.

Those are the biggest issues. How Harbs, or the Biscuit cant see that is puzzling. Either they dont care because Roman is a friend or they are clueless, which is even scarier...

I can agree with this. I'm just saying that you can't run the ball as much as we do without having a much better complementary passing game.

 

3 hours ago, papasmurfbell said:

Then why does a version of it work in Philly.  They run like crazy from so many different angles but also throw the ball around.  

Papa see my reply above. I'm not advocating ditching the running game totally just saying we need a more balanced offense that has an intelligent passing component. And I think one where the medium to long passing play moves the defenses we face back from stacking the box. That way the running attack an the passing attack go hand in hand.

 

 

[papasmurfbell]

1 hour ago, oldno82 said:

I can agree with this. I'm just saying that you can't run the ball as much as we do without having a much better complementary passing game.

 

Papa see my reply above. I'm not advocating ditching the running game totally just saying we need a more balanced offense that has an intelligent passing component. And I think one where the medium to long passing play moves the defenses we face back from stacking the box. That way the running attack an the passing attack go hand in hand.

 

 

And thats my point.  Keep the run system but add the dynamic passing game.

[tsylvester]

This might be a gamble, but bring in a guy like Bobby Slowik, passing game coordinator for the Niners. He has a defensive back ground as well. Young, smart, can bring over some great passing concepts.

Teams don't just not respect the passing game, they fear Lamar's running more than they do his passes.

They gladly go man on the outside because they know Lamar cannot consistently beat them on the outside. This allows them to flood the middle, so he can't run free nor have many clear options to throw to. This confuses Lamar, apparently...

[deeshopper]

Cam Cameron (five seasons; ended with a Super Bowl), Jim Caldwell (one season), Gary Kubiak (one season), Marc Trestman (two seasons), Marty Mornhinweg (two seasons), Greg Roman (four seasons). How long is Harbaugh going to remain insulated from this?

[GrubberRaven]

44 minutes ago, deeshopper said:

Cam Cameron (five seasons; ended with a Super Bowl), Jim Caldwell (one season), Gary Kubiak (one season), Marc Trestman (two seasons), Marty Mornhinweg (two seasons), Greg Roman (four seasons). How long is Harbaugh going to remain insulated from this?

I think with the season presser Thursday and just EDC and Harbaugh, Harbaugh is safe for atleast one more season.  

To Papa's point, of no announcement yet, he's John's bff, so we announce it classy.  Such crap.

[tsylvester]

With the firings from the Chargers, because the OC refused to run the ball more in the 2nd half of their playoff game, and likely in Tampa, Leftwich not the greatest even with Tom Brady..

Maybe, just maybe the Ravens see someone they like better than Roman, right?

No, we should not always follow the masses, and I doubt they announce at the annual presser that Roman is joining Kingsbury in Thailand to hide from reporters... though that would be music to my ears..

[vmax]

How the Ravens draft and develop receivers is totally broke. How they developed Lamar has certainly stalled out. They need an OC and correct staff who can develop these players and implement a passing offense that capitalizes on the 587 stacked boxes they face. It needs to be a quick strike, big play O to match the Big Boys. 

[tsylvester]

The quick strike is overrated,IMHO. I agree with Harbs there.

Let it develope in a game, in a series naturally. I am fine with ball control, keeping the other offense off of the field, keeping our defense fresh.

But have guys on the outside who have the quicks, the jitters to not only pull off a double move after the defense falls for the short passes, but do so in a timely manner. Bateman is one of those guys if he can stay healthy.

Robinson did it twice, once in the playoff game. But is was only called for, properly, twice.

But this also requires a line that can hold up, even the speediest of receivers needs time, see the Miami playoff game. Their line was in shambles, no time for deep passes.

It also requires a qb who can properly read a defense, see that it is man on the outside, look off the safety, wait for the route to developed then throw accurately.

Now you see the missing pieces right? Receivers, a strong line, a smart, accurate qb.... All needed, even if just for one play, for that play to work.

People point out a receiver making the wrong read when Lamar over throws them by 10 yards. Maybe it was Lamar waiting too long to throw it properly or even not throwing it sooner, taking too long to see it. We saw that in the play off games too. A receiver broke free in the red zone, qb saw it a second or two late, dB was able to break up the pass.

[papasmurfbell]

5 hours ago, deeshopper said:

Cam Cameron (five seasons; ended with a Super Bowl), Jim Caldwell (one season), Gary Kubiak (one season), Marc Trestman (two seasons), Marty Mornhinweg (two seasons), Greg Roman (four seasons). How long is Harbaugh going to remain insulated from this?

That has always been my point.  

[tsylvester]

5 hours ago, deeshopper said:

Cam Cameron (five seasons; ended with a Super Bowl), Jim Caldwell (one season), Gary Kubiak (one season), Marc Trestman (two seasons), Marty Mornhinweg (two seasons), Greg Roman (four seasons). How long is Harbaugh going to remain insulated from this?

Until he starts losing consistently, without injuries as an excuse.

This will be the toughest off season to date, even more so than the anguish they went through deciding between bringing Dilfer back or moving on from him after the Super Bowl.

Lamar's contract, go up to his demands or convince him to meet in the middle...

[deeshopper]

1 minute ago, tsylvester said:

Until he starts losing consistently, without injuries as an excuse.

This will be the toughest off season to date, even more so than the anguish they went through deciding between bringing Dilfer back or moving on from him after the Super Bowl.

Lamar's contract, go up to his demands or convince him to meet in the middle...

Except, they've already lost consistently: Dolphins, Bills, Bengals, Giants, Jaguars, Stealers, Bengals. 

And they almost blew: Bengals, Browns, Bucs, Broncos, Stealers.

Not to mention they scored LESS points against the Bengals in the playoffs than in the previous week against the same team, while giving up MORE points in that same game. Embarrassing. Sure, they almost won, but see above.

This team ended the season 10-7, but could have been 15-2 OR 5-12. That's how consistent they've been surrending games.

 

[tsylvester]

I mean seasonally, they won 10 games this year, made the playoffs, almost made them last year, even with an NFL record most players put on ir in a season.

This year they were in every game, held a record at one point for most games with a double digit lead.

They darn near won a playoff game, maybe should have, with a back up qb against one of the best teams in the league.

Oh yes and amongst the injures players was their star qb, one of the best in the league according to them, based on the contract that they offered him.

See, these are the excuses/explanations the Biscuit will use to keep Harbs, to keep consistency. Teams that go through coaches usually are bottom dwellers, teams that invest in coaches win 10 games a year, maybe that is what the Biscuit is looking for, a competitive team, which the Ravens have been in every game this year and last when they set a record for most 1 score games even with the injuries.

I'm with you, his in game management, his team's coming out flat in prime time, playing down to their level, and yes, excuses for Roman are all good reasons to look for a new coach as well as an OC.

The receivers, well, that has been a thorn since well before his time.

[papasmurfbell]

I would counter to Steve that throwing out the major IR yr this team looks to be regressing over time.  So eventually you will get to a Tom Landry period where the game has moved past the HC.

[tsylvester]

35 minutes ago, papasmurfbell said:

I would counter to Steve that throwing out the major IR yr this team looks to be regressing over time.  So eventually you will get to a Tom Landry period where the game has moved past the HC.

He would argue that this team, is one of the most talented, young, in the league. Sure they have a few holes, qb not counting, that is bigger than the grand can, well you know, and he would be correct.

While the offense has regressed, the defense has gotten better. Yes, Smith is a big reason, but health and chemistry are even bigger. They had so many defensive players out last year that those players had to get fit while playing, and also learn a new system.

The offensive line took some timw to come around, also suffering injuries last year, but by the end, they were pretty darn good. The pass blocking was a little weak, but...

The passing game is what caused the offense to go back to the stone age, we havr talked at length about that.

Harbs will be back, one year, maybe two if things go a certain way. The only question is Roman, the passing game.

Do they keep him get a new passing game coordinator?

[papasmurfbell]

I think in some ways they a light on talent.  There are other teams that have more.  Quite a bit of what we have has plateaued while you look at teams like Jax growing.  Like I said in my way to early prediction for 23 I had them at 9 wins.  Idont see bigtime change coming so far.  Its been 3 days since the season ended.  If Roman were leaving we would have been told by now.  

 

It is looking like I will be in the tshirt business come next season.  

[tsylvester]

Another coach I would like to see changed is the offensive line coach. Have you seen the pockets some of, shoot, most of the other qbs get to throw from?

Even in Phili, where they get a nice big open pocket, they work to make a lane for Hurts to run from should he need.

Not here, it looks like Huntley/Lamar are throwing from a phone booth these guys give up so much ground.

[tsylvester]

1 minute ago, papasmurfbell said:

I think in some ways they a light on talent.  There are other teams that have more.  Quite a bit of what we have has plateaued while you look at teams like Jax growing.  Like I said in my way to early prediction for 23 I had them at 9 wins.  Idont see bigtime change coming so far.  Its been 3 days since the season ended.  If Roman were leaving we would have been told by now.  

 

It is looking like I will be in the tshirt business come next season.  

I would think they wait and either as grub said, announce it tomorrow at the fake press conference, or in the dead week between the playoffs and Super Bowl. They won't just fire him without knowing a few coaches that they would like to bring in

[oldno82]

Apparently Roman's contract is up but the club does hold an option to extend him for 2023. If they exercise that option I'll be sick. To me they should take the easy way out and just tell the guy NOW that they're not exercising the option.

Still having doubts that Lamar can ever be the quarterback that's needed to go deep into the playoffs. Either the team's ability to develop him is piss poor or he just doesn't have the tools to be anything more than he is now.

I'm afraid the answer is yes to both of those options.

[oldno82]

15 minutes ago, tsylvester said:

Another coach I would like to see changed is the offensive line coach. Have you seen the pockets some of, shoot, most of the other qbs get to throw from?

Even in Phili, where they get a nice big open pocket, they work to make a lane for Hurts to run from should he need.

Not here, it looks like Huntley/Lamar are throwing from a phone booth these guys give up so much ground.

That's what happens when you gear your whole philosophy towards the run game.